#12 Endgame Game Mechanics Discussion

[Galaxy]

So far we want to keep the applicants for an office hidden to prevent bullying of the other players to get them out of the game. Showing only a list of the other clans as suggested that run for an office could be an option but then the whole clan would be hunted and not just a single player.

But I think with the reduced or removed loss of fame when an application is lost and the multiple offices (~66 offices) to gain tokens on it will get more diverse and each player will get their win sooner or later for an office.

but what will prevent that the alliances that already dominate the server continue to rotate the elections between them?

 

[OrionZG]

About The fame that the pkayers that goes can ouck also this will cause problem bcz if a low lvl 3-4 go and just gather specialy to the low lvl maps they will get all fame for no reason right i mean in Gold Fields if someone join a clan go 10 lvl and go gather 2-3k medals from a camp the clan will get angry and this is not good +But ...But u can make that only the Rh or the Officer will be abale to do this so the person that the leader and others have chose to win election to be also a person that can gather the gate

Or they could add a new "fame collector" role to the clans.

 

[aurelio]

Or they could add a new "fame collector" role to the clans.

Yes because doesnt make sence if someone make a new acount go to other server and if he just join and go gather then he destroye the clan so Dino storm Forum and team have to really say us what they really want to do and not go around and play with us

 

[MX Power]

As for the building rewards, they are still planned to work as usual and placed in the clan inventory and the clan must plan how they split them between its members. Sure directly converting them to fame would reduce the need of inventory space But i might be better to have a system in place that automatically gives the player that picks them up from the buildings the fame?

This make it more messy and more troublesome than it already is......

My complaint is that the old system have been always outdated, and extremely inefficient in terms of distribution. It consumes lot of time to unpack fame from buildings relatively compared to the number of Right hands existing.
Feedback related: Items distribution method for Clan Inventory

Keeping it as it is, while still being under threat of being plundered while collecting is even worse, as you will not be able to unpack the fame and focus on fighting and defending at the same time.

And yes, converting them could help continuing to send fame to AFK/Offline players who are unable to sell the fame items given to them and inevitably their inventories will become full, and we will be unable to send them more, so we will be forced to keep the fame in buildings under threat if clan inventory is full, or send the fame to players who doesn't critically need it as the one who is unable to be online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

• This idea is bad in terms of allowing completely inactive players to be able to compete with active ones.
• Not implementing this would force players who wants to win elections to be more & more active.

But no, a system that would allow individuals to collect fame directly from Buildings to their personal inventories would undermine the contributions of other members who spent their supplies trying to supply it and their Dino dollars in funding the clan to expand and make space for these fame items.

You may introduce that system only if players hold these travel gates and claims individually not as a clan, like how it was before 2016's big update.

• This idea is bad in terms of making it more dangerous to protect these buildings and prevent plundering it, as only the gate owner will be able to resupply.
• This idea is good, in terms of embracing the new change of allowing players from the same clan to compete against each other, since Leader and right hands will not make a mistake by supporting two members against each other.
• This idea will neglect the need of improving the items distribution method.
• This idea will heavily reduce influence of clans and alliances, because it will be in the hands of single individual, and there is only few things a player can do alone.
  • Controlling, supplying & collecting fame items from many gates alone.
  • Seizing fame from many buildings hold by other players.
• This will give a basic estimation of how much fame a single players have by the number of gates they hold, alerting other players if they are under threat by losing an election against him, and giving them time to prepare.
• Having this will require bringing back some old mechanics and items, like the one which was allowing a single building to last 24 hours if not being under takeover, and using power gel that reducing the normal building supply depletion under takeover.
• Having this will require new mechanics such as allowing high ranking members of clan to instantly deplete a gate hold by their members to allow easier switch of control, as before, members were forced to leave clan to start a takeover to buildings hold by their clan mates, then after takeover ends, return back to clan. (Before 2016's update)

 

[MX Power]

Game Buildings

• Once a building is supplied by a clan after an x minutes cooldown PVE attacks will emerge to claim the rewards from the building.
• Defended PVE attacks will grant the building with extra reward items based on how many attacks have been defended.
• Attacks will get more frequent based on the time the building is held and by the amount of rewards that are currently stored in the building.
• PVE Attackers willl drain the supply of the building when they are inside the building radius.
• PVE Attacker will steal all items from the building when the have successfully unsuplied the building.

While I am not a big fan of this idea, since the attack have been pushed over defense even further:

• Defenders can be plundered.
• Defenders are forced to deal with both PVP & PVE attackers.
• Defenders can waste lot of supplies and receive nothing much.
• Defenders can not collect fame items if buildings is under takeover.
• Defenders have no time to manage their Clan inventory while being under attack.

• Attackers can plunder Buildings and seize its fame items if they are not collected.
• Attackers can see which gates that have high number of fame items stored.
• Attackers are not forced to maintain the gates after plundering it. Therefore are not forced to deal with other PVP & PVE attackers.

I would think that being an attacker should come with more difficulties and struggles, or at least methods to make it easier to defend against them, and push defense further to balance it out with attack.

For example, attackers should be the only ones receiving the duelist sign, and there should be mobs specialized in attacking these players with duelist which spawn randomly during a takeover, depending on building's level.

Removing Duelist from defenders also mean that they can travel through buildings under takeover, and can use teleport matrix too, which would help defending become more faster and efficient, in compensation to what they could lose, if they failed to defend.

Maybe forcing attackers to spend 1 supply charge per red feet too, as it would prove to be expensive to attack, instead of 1 supply charge per takeover status.



Anyway, I would focus more on the concept of being attacked by PVE units, and I would push for more predictably of when they exactly attack. Because they could appear all of a sudden while none is awake, and I believe that the game shouldn't force their players to stay awake after midnight.

I suggest the following:

• PVE attackers only spawn after using a supply charge, and they can take their time to respawn at any minute between zero and 30 minutes from supplying a building.
• The longer players keep a gate, the more ferocious they become, or the more they increase in numbers, not the more frequent their attacks increase at random.
• Level of PVE attackers should be be based on building level, so if you are holding a gate at a low zone, you are subjected to more PVP attacks, and less severe PVE attacks, and if you are holding a gate at high zone, you are subjected to less PVP attacks, and more sever PVE attacks.
• The reward generated from PVE defense should be based on both the number and the strength of PVE attackers, a veteran should be able to give more medals/gold items than a rookie, and each defeated bandits should give reward separately.
• The reward should be exclusive to who defend buildings from PVE units, like drop items, so you can protect buildings that doesn't belong to you, and benefit from the reward yourself.

 

[MX Power]

one of the objectives of the update is to end Big alliances, obviously there will still be alliances between 2 or 3 clans, or even more, but a bigger alliance will not be advantageous, because the risk of losing the position by the ally itself would be quite large, so it is necessary that the elections are anonymous, so that it will force the clans to go their own way or form small alliances, and in the case of an entire alliance joining a single clan, it will also not be advantageous, as the waiting list would be huge

The goal was to reduce the influence of big alliances and their monopoly on elections, not to destroy alliances itself and the trust between them! And that was already achieved through many reforms, that made being an attacker a lot more easier than being a defender.

This method completely annihilates the concept of an alliance. And as discussed by many, Once an alliance is dead, the clan of that alliance would regroup in a single clan and still act as an alliance except that they would be in 1 big clan, in contrast, to separate small clans.

The concept of big clan merge sound a little bit more messy now considering that clan mates can too block each other, and the only way to prevent that would be to control who takes the fame, but now that is even being hammered on, as Highway mentioned: ...

But i might be better to have a system in place that automatically gives the player that picks them up from the buildings the fame?

Showing only a list of the other clans as suggested that run for an office could be an option but then the whole clan would be hunted and not just a single player.

I do not personally see where is the problem with that.

And it is better than the alternative, which is attacking everyone and trying to seize everything indiscriminately, and ruin any trust between players and themselves. Whether they are neutral, enemies, allies or even members at the same clan!

The only way your proposal can work without everything to descend into chaos would be to normalize "Blocking" & "Losing" elections, that would be by increasing opportunities to obtain T-Rex. Therefore, when we lose an election, we would be like : *Sigh* "Ok, better luck next time", not: *Frustration* "Let's make sure that never happens again.

Increasing opportunities can be achieved through:

• Reduce the number of time in waiting for a new election to start.
• Generate high number of tokens for high office elections:
  • Marshall
  • Deputy
  • Assistant Deputy
• Introduce a second Tier for "Silver offices" and have in total:
  • 2 Governors
  • 4 Councillors
  • 6 Constables
  • 8 Board members.

But again, I do not see a problem with these proposed ideas:

1. Leader/Right hands can view which members of their own clans running in which office.
   • To assist them with fame.
2. Anyone else can't see any detail about the player who joined the office except their "Clan".
   • Leader/Right hands can make a choice:
     1. Fight for obtain the office by force.
     2. Maintain defensive position if the odds are in their favor.
     3. Back out of that election office by:
        1. Speaking to their member, and asking them to leave the office.
        2. Expelling that member, if he refuses to leave, and endanger the clan.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

[MX Power]

So far we want to keep the applicants for an office hidden to prevent bullying of the other players to get them out of the game.

What do you think will happen to players after they become announced as the winners?

 

[slejd2001]

but what will prevent that the alliances that already dominate the server continue to rotate the elections between them?

if players not in the alliance will be able to win elections then maybe its fine that alliances will continue to rotate the elections

 

[slejd2001]

• Defenders can waste lot of supplies and receive nothing much.

as highway said after defending tower from pve attack tower will get additional rewards.

i got idea that at the start maybe all towers would have good yield and after defending tower from pve attack yield would rise from good to very good, after another defense from attack yield would rise from very good to excellent or just after every tower defense items with bigger value would be generated faster and/or more often - bigger chance and faster for gold medals or gold nuggets. yield would be reseted after failing defense.
what players think about it?

 

[slejd2001]

For example, attackers should be the only ones receiving the duelist sign, and there should be mobs specialized in attacking these players with duelist which spawn randomly during a takeover, depending on building's level.

Removing Duelist from defenders also mean that they can travel through buildings under takeover, and can use teleport matrix too, which would help defending become more faster and efficient, in compensation to what they could lose, if they failed to defend.

Maybe forcing attackers to spend 1 supply charge per red feet too, as it would prove to be expensive to attack, instead of 1 supply charge per takeover status.

this would be too bad and hard for attackers

 

[slejd2001]

I suggest the following:

• PVE attackers only spawn after using a supply charge, and they can take their time to respawn at any minute between zero and 30 minutes from supplying a building.
• The longer players keep a gate, the more ferocious they become, or the more they increase in numbers, not the more frequent their attacks increase at random.
• Level of PVE attackers should be be based on building level, so if you are holding a gate at a low zone, you are subjected to more PVP attacks, and less severe PVE attacks, and if you are holding a gate at high zone, you are subjected to less PVP attacks, and more sever PVE attacks.
• The reward generated from PVE defense should be based on both the number and the strength of PVE attackers, a veteran should be able to give more medals/gold items than a rookie, and each defeated bandits should give reward separately.
• The reward should be exclusive to who defend buildings from PVE units, like drop items, so you can protect buildings that doesn't belong to you, and benefit from the reward yourself.

these ideas are pretty good. i totally agree that if pve attacks would be random it wouldnt be good.
@Highway would it be possible to make that after opening tower window there would be shown the approximate time till the pve attack, something like this: X hours till pve attack?

 

[Alewx]

these ideas are pretty good. i totally agree that if pve attacks would be random it wouldnt be good.
@Highway would it be possible to make that after opening tower window there would be shown the approximate time till the pve attack, something like this: X hours till pve attack?

Wouldn't that just lead to ppl abandoning the building until the time of an attack has come?

 

[slejd2001]

The goal was to reduce the influence of big alliances and their monopoly on elections, not to destroy alliances itself and the trust between them! And that was already achieved through many reforms, that made being an attacker a lot more easier than being a defender.

The concept of big clan merge sound a little bit more messy now considering that clan mates can too block each other, and the only way to prevent that would be to control who takes the fame, but now that is even being hammered on, as Highway mentioned: ...

I do not personally see where is the problem with that.

And it is better than the alternative, which is attacking everyone and trying to seize everything indiscriminately, and ruin any trust between players and themselves. Whether they are neutral, enemies, allies or even members at the same clan!

The only way your proposal can work without everything to descend into chaos would be to normalize "Blocking" & "Losing" elections, that would be by increasing opportunities to obtain T-Rex. Therefore, when we lose an election, we would be like : *Sigh* "Ok, better luck next time", not: *Frustration* "Let's make sure that never happens again.

highway already said that after losing an election there might be low or no loss at all of fame, what i think shouldnt make anyone frustrate, but just "Ok, better luck next time", so i dont see why you are talking about it xd

Players loosing an election will not loose 75% of their invested fame anymore. Instead this will be lowered or even removed completly to support the "step by step closer to the goal" idea even more.

• Generate high number of tokens for high office elections:
  • Marshall
  • Deputy
  • Assistant Deputy

about this highway told too that there will be very high rewards in comparison to lower offices

4. The tokens won per position is balanced in a way that it is always better to win higher positions in terms of tokens per months. For example you can expect ~1:100 ratio between the lowest to the sheriff office in terms of token rewards.

• Introduce a second Tier for "Silver offices" and have in total:
  • 2 Governors
  • 4 Councillors
  • 6 Constables
  • 8 Board members.

there are only 4 director offices, though there is only 1 governor office and 5 assistant deputy offices

 

[MX Power]

Wouldn't that just lead to ppl abandoning the building until the time of an attack has come?

Yup, I believe it should be random but at short span of time. People at midnight want supply then go to their beds, 30 minutes max should be good.

 

[slejd2001]

What do you think will happen to players after they become announced as the winners?

i guess its better to be bullied after elections, not during and without winning them xd

 

[MX Power]

i guess its better to be bullied after elections, not during and without winning them xd

I believe that players will be more angry if election they claimed have been taken from them, and they would rather punish the player who took it by surprise,

If they have the option however to know their opponent's clan, that person might consider not put himself in that situation, and also they could estimate how much fame they need and be sure about not losing.

 

[slejd2001]

Wouldn't that just lead to ppl abandoning the building until the time of an attack has come?

it would, but i think it wouldnt be better if people would have to stay near towers 24/7 as it was with old clan/towers system when 1 player, not whole clan, was holding a tower.
maybe if there would be shown time only in hours then players should wait about 1h for an attack, as if time left would be less than 1h then there could be shown something like this: 0 hours left till attack

 

[MX Power]

this would be too bad and hard for attackers

The third might have been too harsh, but these are just suggestions for how to balance things out. I like the idea of involving PVE against attackers as well. it shouldn't be an obstacle exclusive to defenders.

you can suggest your own ideas for how to make Defense still worth it.

 

[slejd2001]

you can suggest your own ideas for how to make Defense still worth it.

defense from pvp attack?

 

[slejd2001]

The third might have been too harsh, but these are just suggestions for how to balance things out. I like the idea of involving PVE against attackers as well. it shouldn't be an obstacle exclusive to defenders.

we shouldnt forget about map shortcuts with which devs will work after new endgame, so with shortcuts i think it wouldnt be very long to get to the tower to defend it

1 more idea popped up to my head:
would it be possible to make that with tokens it would be possible to hire tower defenders, like there would spawn bandits to defend tower from any attacker, defenders would be spawning after tower is attacked and after certain time disappear and should be hired again. tower which would have defenders could be marked with protection sign or something similar

 

[MX Power]

highway already said that after losing an election there might be low or no loss at all of fame, what i think shouldnt make anyone frustrate, but just "Ok, better luck next time", so i dont see why you are talking about it xd

No, no, you don't get it.

There are few election opportunities, with having only 1 Governor slot for example every 9 days that elevate you to the next tier of elections, and everyone would want that, but there is only one person who is going to win it.

Anyone who is not Councillor might have a better chance at getting re-elected at any office except sheriff, but it should be good enough for high token earnings.

Anyway, if that remain the case, the frustration for not winning at Governor will be severe. Heck, I know players who already faced frustration for losing Councillor election itself 4 times in row. And it is not good, trust me. Players only will be calm, if there are many opportunities that can satisfy many of them. Or else, they will need a diplomatic solution that can guarantee their winning after some months or even years of waiting for their turn, but better than losing over and over again.

 

[MX Power]

defense from pvp attack?

Being Buildings holder instead of buildings raider.

 

[MX Power]

there are only 4 director offices, though there is only 1 governor office and 5 assistant deputy offices

Tiers of elections are as the following:

• 4 pages for Bronze/Streets elections.
• 1 page for Silver/District elections.
• 1 page for gold/Town elections.

I say make it as the following:

• 4 pages for Bronze.
• 2 pages for silver.
• 1 page for gold.

More Governor elections means more people elevating to the next tier, Governor is as hard as Sheriff. except that it takes 9 days instead of 14.

 

[MX Power]

1 more idea popped up to my head:
would it be possible to make that with tokens it would be possible to hire tower defenders, like there would spawn bandits to defend tower from any attacker,

Mobs are overall weak, they serve as a distraction or irritation, not an actual threat to be taken seriously.

 

[slejd2001]

Being Buildings holder instead of buildings raider.

this i guess:

The rewards will be withdrawn according to the current % of the camp. Example: A portal has 100 medals. If the portal is attacked and zeroed, the attacker will only receive these 100 medals if he supplies up to 100%, if he supplies only 25% he will receive 25 medals, if he supplies 50% he will receive 50 medals and so on. If the portal has 40% and is supplied up to 65%, only 65 medals would be withdrawn.

1 more idea popped up to my head:
would it be possible to make that with tokens it would be possible to hire tower defenders, like there would spawn bandits to defend tower from any attacker, defenders would be spawning after tower is attacked and after certain time disappear and should be hired again. tower which would have defenders could be marked with protection sign or something similar

this would be a thing only from pve attack:

as highway said after defending tower from pve attack tower will get additional rewards.

i got idea that at the start maybe all towers would have good yield and after defending tower from pve attack yield would rise from good to very good, after another defense from attack yield would rise from very good to excellent or just after every tower defense items with bigger value would be generated faster and/or more often - bigger chance and faster for gold medals or gold nuggets. yield would be reseted after failing defense.
what players think about it?

 

[slejd2001]

Mobs are overall weak, they serve as a distraction or irritation, not an actual threat to be taken seriously.

i agree, but what about 55 lvl t-rex vets ;d or outlaw hunter remade to tower defenders, but with high hp?
i think devs already are thinking to add back outlaw hunters

this is the proof:

• Item to contract pay Outlaw headhunters to protect an area from outlaws on a map

 

[Valkorey]

Sounds good. I like that content will be available for more players. Be careful not to remove certain aspects a lot of players like about this game.

Adding world bosses is something new and can hardly go wrong. If you spend some extra hours on the bosses you can expect a very positive response from the community. No need to design new creatures (I know you do not have a very big team of game artists and developers), but adding a few changes to the existing models will be enough.

The huge, powerful clans are an issue, they basically claim entire maps. They make other clans "free kills" so they can not play without protection anymore. No clan should have the power to "remove" entire groups of players from a server (example: Eu2). Because of this, they also get to decide who gets sherrif/rex and who doesn't. Since sherrif is currently the only end game goal it is good to add additional rewards and goals for players.

If you can not do anything about the "free kill" situation, it might be good to focus on rewarding pve content that motivates players to keep playing. Tons of players get creative with combining certain skins and clothes. They love to express themselves and I think it would be great to support this. Showing off your own style is what kept other big games alive when aspects of their gameplay sucked. Modelling new clothes or adding new, exciting textures might make a big difference. Even adding different color options for a weapon would be great (I saw some fan art about this and thought it was very smart)

When I said that you need to be careful not to remove certain parts of the game players like I meant stuff like:
- Big open world battles. Dino storm nailed this most of the time, especially when you look at other games who had the same idea but failed.
- Gathering spots such as the claim Otis and the spawn point Insley. Don't make them feel like they are alone in the game.

Ofcourse there are more thing about this game that people like, but the thing that makes Dino Storm stand out is the way people are able to do PvP and feel like an actual team overall. When I had to give a presentation about the gameplay of your game (and why it works) in the Game Art college it got me a straight A. It even ranked higher then the PvP gameplay of World of Warcraft from Blizzard Entertainment... so keep it up <3 We love you

 

[MX Power]

What if PVE attackers drop supply charge instead of Fame items

 

[Pleiadian]

What if PVE attackers drop supply charge instead of Fame items

View attachment 41625

seems legit..

 

[MX Power]

No clan should have the power to "remove" entire groups of players from a server (example: Eu2).

My clan was once against almost the whole server, but none could force us out. We fought outnumbered and formed some friendships and alliances along the way, and after more than a year of fighting, we secured back our position.

Do not confuse that with quitting, and ruining reputation/destroying relations with other clans.