What's new

#14 Endgame Part 3 (Sites Gameplay)

Status
Not open for further replies.

SPA

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
373
Reaction score
261
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
@I1 E 4 E H 9l T 0 P
Clan
CHILL_ZONE
the system should be dynamic, changeable in the situation, if on the server 1 side of the conflict surpasses the other many times, then this side of the conflict should be more vulnerable, if a major war starts on 2 major sides of the conflict, then this will be configured according to the system, as I wrote earlier, more gates = more drain/repair multiplier
 

Pleiadian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
962
Reaction score
1,651
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
Rembrandt.
Clan
-
What solution are you planning to do for them?
It should take a minimum of 5 minutes to drain an excellent Site. This will encourage more battles for the Site.

Attackers will not just walk into the circle and instantly drain it in less than 120 seconds. And defenders can actually defend it.
 

Isabella16

Active member
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
138
Reaction score
114
Server
America_5
Main Char
- K a r o l -
Clan
-Gladiadores-
¿De qué sirve defender ahora si los enemigos solo van a morir en un portal infinitamente usando un tanque dino, van una y otra vez, y otra vez a morir por un portal? y los defensores no pueden hacer nada contra esto, los que tienen portales nunca dejarán portales al 400% o 200% ya que los portales son indefendibles.
 

Xx EL LOBO xX

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
29
Reaction score
46
Server
America_1
Main Char
xxthewolfxx
Clan
_THE REVOLUTION_
¿De qué sirve defender ahora si los enemigos solo van a morir en un portal infinitamente usando un tanque dino, van una y otra vez, y otra vez a morir por un portal? y los defensores no pueden hacer nada contra esto, los que tienen portales nunca dejarán portales al 400% o 200% ya que los portales son indefendibles.
I hate the new dv gates, they are so unnecesary. Defenders can just cover the gate if they outnumber the attackers, and if the attackers are not enough to kill them (most of the cases), they are forced to leave the map so what was the point of adding this dynamic at all? @Highway
 

Galaxy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
270
Reaction score
407
Server
America_5
Main Char
Galax
Clan
No clan
If you go back on page 1 of this thread, you will see that multiple conflicts phase is the only feature that was the most requested. By everyone.
in fact, the majority did not want there to be phases of conflict.
But obviously it's better to have several than just one...
 

Luka Patajac

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
533
Reaction score
215
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
Valmort
Clan
-NkSF-
I honestly thought devs planned there to be 3 from the very beginning of this update(conflict phases).
 

- Leyenda -

Active member
Joined
Jan 14, 2024
Messages
103
Reaction score
77
Server
America_5
Main Char
- Leyenda -
Clan
-GLadiadores-
It should take a minimum of 5 minutes to drain an excellent Site. This will encourage more battles for the Site.

Attackers will not just walk into the circle and instantly drain it in less than 120 seconds. And defenders can actually defend it.
It takes 2 minutes to empty the portal and 1H of conflict, it is simple to go die for 5 minutes and take a portal, you cannot defend it even if it is 10vs3
 

Czarna

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
205
Reaction score
346
Server
Europe_4
Main Char
Czarna
Clan
- Eternal -
Usually I avoid repeating myself, but seeing how large this thread has grown already, perhaps an organised summary of things mentioned before will prove useful.

+ guaranteed rewards for a successful attack
Perhaps the most positive change that this update has introduced so far. Encouraging more player attacks leads to more exciting and active gameplay.


+ reduced impact of the use of autoclicker tools
While they can still be useful for other aspects of the game, site control is no longer one of them.

- added benefits for multi-accounting
Attackers/defenders can place multiple accounts AFK on multiple sites to drain/heal them simultaneously and use their active accounts to hunt down the enemies. Players that can't be present during the Vulnerable phase are also incentivised to share their accounts to their allies.


- attack windows are a very restricting concept
By choosing specific times, you are simultaneously choosing the group with the most advantage. There is no surprise factor as people are actively watching the maps during the Vulnerable phase. No matter how you select the times, there will always be people that are disappointed with them. It is a very different experience to play the game when you most want it vs when the game needs you to be online.

+ travel sick status
In the early draft I noticed that spamming Recovery Kits would have a huge impact on the recovery and draining of a site. While they can still be very useful, spamming Kits with a Brachiosaurus to drain site is no longer an auto-win. That being said:

- attacking sites is a lot easier than defending them
Even with the ratio of 1 to 2, it is very difficult to succesfully defend a site. In many cases it is pointless to even attempt defending - not everyone has realised it yet, but people that did, began exchanging sites between clans and they did so for a good reason.

Imagine the following scenario: you have a server with a very active Town Hall and therefore all sites are open for the players to control. There is only one site held by Dinoville per map (= it's the only site that can be used for travelling). Vulnerable phase starts, all sites go red. No one can teleport anywhere. You want to defend one of your sites, but you need to reach it first. It takes ~6 minutes to cross the whole map on the fastest Dino as a lvl 55 player (55 Coelophysis with a 55 endurance implant). All excellent sites at the ends of the maps will be lost before you can even reach them (as of the current version: 2 minutes to fully drain an excellent site). You can reach a site with a very good yield, but it might as well fall before you manage to kill all the enemies.

It doesn't matter how many sites you own. You might only have that 1 excellent yield site at the end of the map. You might even be ready before the Vulnerable phase starts and stay close to it. But if you die once, you still have to respawn in the middle of the map and walk towards it. And you will not make it there before the site is fully drained. Losing just one battle may cause the defenders to lose their site, while the attackers after a lost fight can reorganise and try again many times until the Vulnerable phase ends. This does mean that even small attackers can take hold of a site for 1 Production phase, but they will lose it during the next Vulnerable phase anyway, so their best bet is to attack a different one instead of attempting a futile defense.

And the situation is no different on servers with a less active Town hall. With more sites to choose as spawn points, the attackers can reach any site they want quickly. All the attackers need to do is repeatedly walk towards a site and enter it to slowly drain it while the defenders can not even attempt to heal the damage they did. The only viable strategy to keep your sites is to overwhelm the enemy and spawn kill. Each time the attackers reach a site, the defenders start losing, regardless of the result of continued battles.

Jump links are not of much help for the defenders either, as they are also useful for the attackers. If the attackers can reach any site they were draining before the defenders can repair the damage, the defense becomes pointless. The site is going to fall anyway, unless the Vulnerable phase ends before that can happen. The only exception may be when the defending clan owns the majority of the sites in a map and only one of them is being attacked. If the attacked site is far away from Dinoville-owned sites, the defenders can reach it much faster than the attackers (they can use their other sites to teleport and spawn from) and they may be able to defend it.

And then the next phase, the cycle repeats - sites that were taken over previously, get easily drained again. Thus defending players get pushed towards 1) exchanging sites with their allies to keep them safe, as once they are taken over, they can not be attacked again until the next Vulnerable phase OR 2) keeping sites at a lower yield so there is a chance that the Vulnerable phase will end before the vicious cycle of losing a site.

I have very mixed feelings about this point.
 

Galaxy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
270
Reaction score
407
Server
America_5
Main Char
Galax
Clan
No clan
@Highway @Narokath

Tank class walking into the circle and taking the Site in less than 1.5 minutes need to be addressed.

It's not even defendable.
If they remove the ability to nullify the effect of Rex's cry, it would be enough to prevent tanks from entering the circle
 

Pleiadian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
962
Reaction score
1,651
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
Rembrandt.
Clan
-
If they remove the ability to nullify the effect of Rex's cry, it would be enough to prevent tanks from entering the circle
Did you take notice at how many seconds it take to kill a Tank?

If there's a group of enemies with Tank Dino on an excellent gate, they just sit there and take the building.

Tank class takes too much time to kill, there's no battle when attacker are using Tank. They just go, sit at the circle, the alliance is coming and shooting, by the time the Tank attackers are dead, they already took the Site.
 

Highway

Splitscreen Studios
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
3,504
Thats for the very detailed feedback @Czarna. Helps to understand what helps and what issues remain. I think some tactics with the new drain speeds need to evolve a bit.

What we already did is to improve a few aspects mentioned here that should improve a few elemements already:
https://forum.dinostorm.com/threads/game-update-april-16-2024.24046/ (Updates Tomorrow)


Tank class walking into the circle and taking the Site in less than 1.5 minutes need to be addressed.

It's not even defendable.
A site on excellent yield takes 2 minutes to drain fully and 4 minutes when there is a defender present. Is it not possible as defender to keep the tank away from reaching the gate?
 

..Arcadius..

Active member
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
120
Reaction score
165
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
..Arcadius..
Clan
F O U N D
Is it not possible as defender to keep the tank away from reaching the gate?
90% of the time, defenders don't notice there are enemies unless the gate is already red (since attackers usually wait for duelist/outlaw status to wear off and then tp directly to the gate they'll drain). By then, it's already too late.
 

Highway

Splitscreen Studios
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
3,504
90% of the time, defenders don't notice there are enemies unless the gate is already red (since attackers usually wait for duelist/outlaw status to wear off and then tp directly to the gate they'll drain). By then, it's already too late.
Hmm guess then its a problem that the clan owns to many buildings to properly defend them if not every building has a defender present? But if there are defenders present is it possible to defend it against tanks?
 

Pleiadian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
962
Reaction score
1,651
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
Rembrandt.
Clan
-
But if there are defenders present is it possible to defend it against tanks?
No.

Because tank classes are very resistant in 1v1. Especially against the runner class. Now in a case, where there are multiple tank attackers, it's not even possible to kill them before they take the Site.
 

- Leyenda -

Active member
Joined
Jan 14, 2024
Messages
103
Reaction score
77
Server
America_5
Main Char
- Leyenda -
Clan
-GLadiadores-
Thats for the very detailed feedback @Czarna. Helps to understand what helps and what issues remain. I think some tactics with the new drain speeds need to evolve a bit.

What we already did is to improve a few aspects mentioned here that should improve a few elemements already:
https://forum.dinostorm.com/threads/game-update-april-16-2024.24046/ (Updates Tomorrow)




A site on excellent yield takes 2 minutes to drain fully and 4 minutes when there is a defender present. Is it not possible as defender to keep the tank away from reaching the gate?
Not when the attackers go in groups of 3 to the same portal as waves with dino tanks, the number of defenders does not matter since they take 5Min in total to take a portal. This also happens with the 200% portals, the players do not attack the defenders. The defenders just desperately go to the portal and since the defenders do not have extra power, it takes too long to kill 3 tanks.
 

..Arcadius..

Active member
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
120
Reaction score
165
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
..Arcadius..
Clan
F O U N D

- Leyenda -

Active member
Joined
Jan 14, 2024
Messages
103
Reaction score
77
Server
America_5
Main Char
- Leyenda -
Clan
-GLadiadores-
The large alliances no longer improve the portals due to the issue of tanks, this means that the small clans do not drain because making that play the only thing they do is lose large amounts of dino dollars for 3/8 medals, making everything meaningless.
 

Czarna

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
205
Reaction score
346
Server
Europe_4
Main Char
Czarna
Clan
- Eternal -
A site on excellent yield takes 2 minutes to drain fully and 4 minutes when there is a defender present. Is it not possible as defender to keep the tank away from reaching the gate?
The problem isn't trying to keep the tank players away from the site for 4 continuous minutes, but rather trying to keep them from being present near the site for 4 minutes total (a bit more considering that in the time tank players are walking towards the site, it can be healed without being drained) during the period of 1-2 hours. They can keep coming back to the same site for the whole duration of the Vulnerable phase without fighting back, trying to suvive as long as possible. The invulnerable period with increased endurance also helps them reach the site faster while preserving their HP.
 

- Leyenda -

Active member
Joined
Jan 14, 2024
Messages
103
Reaction score
77
Server
America_5
Main Char
- Leyenda -
Clan
-GLadiadores-
Yesterday a test was done among several players on the server, there were 3 defenders With Tyrannosaurus Rex (The strongest dino) I can't tell you if the players had damage enhancers but they were level 55 players. I, being a 50 player with a tank dino, managed to take a tower that was at 400% the defenders couldn't do anything I was only defeated 3 times losing only 2K dino dollars where is the logic in that?
 

will-o'-theSe-mi

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Server
Asia_1
Main Char
Standin.Semi
Clan
Team Pepeja
The new conflict schedule will remain for now. This is also what the majority of players wanted
I hope this changes soon, atleast in Asia, cause ever since the 5 VP came attackers exponentially decreased so no more big clash, even in longer VP (Where they used to get 7-14 towers). Plus defenders are now KINDA back on watching the map 24/7. So I kinda see it as lose-lose, atleast on asia.

Also just throwing an idea, maybe adding an item that increase a players draining/healing rate would suffice these peoples concerns?
 

Pleiadian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
962
Reaction score
1,651
Server
Europe_1
Main Char
Rembrandt.
Clan
-
maybe adding an item that increase a players draining/healing rate would suffice these peoples concerns?
Defenders (alliance) will most definitely abuse that feature.

And also, I don't think we should go towards overcomplicating everything. Too much overengineering when things can be simple.
 

will-o'-theSe-mi

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Server
Asia_1
Main Char
Standin.Semi
Clan
Team Pepeja
Defenders (alliance) will most definitely abuse that feature.

And also, I don't think we should go towards overcomplicating everything. Too much overengineering when things can be simple.
Fair, but for dead servers I believe the draining rate buff is kinda decent.
 

Highway

Splitscreen Studios
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
3,504
What if we increase the repair rate to 15 as a test to see if it helps to make the balance better? Would be around 8 minutes on "excellent yield" when attackers and defenders are in the building area. Before we change the HP to something differently like the mentioned HP based on owned buildings instead of yield.

Ideally 2 buildings on "basic" yield should be similar to defend than 1 on "good yield" as they provide the same rewards. With the tendency that a single building is easier to hold as you dont need to split your defenders around mutliple sites.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top