#12 Endgame Game Mechanics Discussion

[Mania]

This is place that is meant for sharing our Feedback, and I did that, some other players mentioned their feedback too, and I respect that. Some players replied objectively to my Feedback, and I replied back, and eventually we ended with a common understanding, and I like that. Some players replied to my feedback, and I replied back, and we did not agree on anything, but I respect that too.

and then there is you,
Arguing over nothing.

he got like this with me too over something minuscule. he's just argumentative for the sake of it. i'd ignore it tbh.

 

[MX Power]

he got like this with me too over something minuscule. he's just argumentative for the sake of it. i'd ignore it tbh.

Shall do it too, he doesn't deserve our attention. Needless to say, every Feedback is to be respected, whether we agree or disagree with it.

 

[Infernal]

Minha ideia para a atualização, no lugar desse sistema de fama, seria converter os pontos de abastecimento em tokens para desbloquear o rex no novo sistema.
Usando também uma nova maneira de fazer com que todos os membros, não somente os níveis altos, contribuíssem com o clã, da seguinte maneira:
~ Diariamente, seria checado se cada membro está ativo e seria incluído em uma tabela semanal dentro do clã e da aliança; dentro desta tabela, seria incluído o que o membro fez durante o dia, se ajudou seus aliados durante guerra ou caçada e se ajudou seu clã, doando ou abastecendo, ou simplesmente participando
~ Seria descontado pontos por advertências/penalizações como desrespeito aos do clã ou aliança, e até mesmo por inatividade.
~ No final do dia, os pontos seriam convertidos em uma quantidade x para trocar por uma quantidade x de fama equivalente para cargos na prefeitura.
~ Os que não tivessem tanto tempo para jogar seriam penalizados de acordo com o cargo, descontando uma pequena quantidade de fama semanalmente, assim não seria tão severo.
Seria interessante ter também, pequenas recompensas por atividades, como matar x inimigos ou ajudar x quantidade de aliados durante o dia, upar seus itens diariamente ou semanalmente, completar tarefas do clã com seus companheiros, como missões ou pedidos de ajuda e até recrutamento com recomendação de amigos.
Os clãs deveriam ter um mural com os 3 mais ativos da semana, e esses, ao final da semana, iriam converter seus pontos de destaque em fama para subir seus respectivos cargos.

~~

Penso que essa ideia deixaria os membros mais ativos e até motivar os novos jogadores;

 

[snnrk]

We should not have that update before this step is implemented at least. And I mentioned why in a previous reply

And I also mentioned earlier that these are just initial ideas bro, taking into account the previous updates I find it difficult that this is ready in the next months, we have a lot of time to refine our ideas and test on the PTR, they are too big changes to be made without the due attention.

Perhaps it was a confusing sentence because the translator removed a comma and changed a few words, but what I mean is that it is not yet time to say "how" to make the changes, let's wait for more complete information and use this information to give our opinions based on them.
I believe that it is time to work only with concepts, to speak what we want and what we do not want, for example, you want peace to be guaranteed and I want total competitiveness, you and I talk about the reason for our choices and it should end on here. To go beyond this is to enter into an unsubstantiated discussion.

 

[slejd2001]

The way it is heading, an alliance dominating server will not the case, but actually a clan dominating server, because that what this update is going to push this game into, more clan merges where alliances unite themselves instead of spread their people into different clans.

i dont think that every alliance will merge to clans as anyone who disagrees with alliances rules and etc. will be able to leave clan and just steal fame, what doesnt require to be "friendly" with alliance

 

[-bugdivine]

then open your eyes because you are not clearly looking

then lets hunt all day what can i say

 

[toxicdeathxZZ]

If you're hold buildings, you are allowing yourself (clan) to be attacked. This is not peaceful no matter which way it is threaded. You are participating. If peace is the goal, protection is there to stop all forms of player combat, if someone is vocal then use the ignore button. An alliance is as close to peace as you are going to get without actually being peaceful.

Although not being able to see who you are running against, is quite alarming and should not be a thing in my opinion. It is gambling money since supplies cost gc and you need to supply to gain fame.

Alliances will never go away, players will find a way around whatever rule or mechanic. Whether it is sending players to a clan, making a new one etc. Players will flock to whichever side is winning for a better chance at progressing. Cycle will never be broken.

Really nothing to argue about, these ideas arent final. Defending them vigorously is pointless and pointing out obvious flaws isn't helping.

 

[Pleiadian]

conclusion e.e, game gonna die after 2 months of update.

Whatever has been discussed so far is based on an idea/ schema that Developer gave. Also, I remember them saying that the end result will be different than that we are shown.

50% discussion / 49% feedback

Those discussion helps the Devs understand the argument from a different perspective, which also serves as feedback to them.

Really nothing to argue about, these ideas arent final. Defending them vigorously is pointless and pointing out obvious flaws isn't helping.

 

[Highway]

Phewww that was a lot to read.

Lets keep it constructive and try to keep it on the topic. There are a lot of different opinions and that is good and shows how difficult it is to please most players. Like mentioned the presented concept is subject to change and still be shaped with the help of community feedback.

Please dont discuss over and over again about the same thing arguing against each other. Respect the views of others even when you dont agree on them.

We defined clear goals (posted with the concept) that we plan to solve. Some of them will tackled with the game building game play but that is not ready yet. Let me just point out that inside one of that goals defined are the sheriff lists that cause hidden wars to harass players from the server etc. if they dont play along with the alliance in control.

Let's move on and share your views on the preseted concpet and its possible pitfalls etc.

 

[Agusdim]

he got like this with me too over something minuscule. he's just argumentative for the sake of it. i'd ignore it tbh.

I call that not putting up with a debate.

And if I am so bad and negative, why am I the user with the most positive reactions on the forum?

But hey, that is not a valid argument, I will not copy myself from the resentful former GM.

 

[BERT]

give us pvp arena with fame as reward for when you kill somebody then since it's a pvp game after all )

 

[BERT]

give us pvp arena with fame as reward for when you kill somebody then since it's a pvp game after all )

that way players who pvp/duel well get rewarded decently for by definition of fame means reputation and of course you build reputation by being good at the game

i know some players that don't participate in wars and don't fight well but they're getting sheriff elections

 

[OrionZG]

Let me just point out that inside one of that goals defined are the sheriff lists that cause hidden wars to harass players from the server etc. if they dont play along with the alliance in control.

You mean that in the game buildings there will be a "spy" object to observe the players and their fame in the evaluations from town hall? Or a way to avoid dirty fights?

 

[JHON JAIRO]

Phewww that was a lot to read.

Lets keep it constructive and try to keep it on the topic. There are a lot of different opinions and that is good and shows how difficult it is to please most players. Like mentioned the presented concept is subject to change and still be shaped with the help of community feedback.

Please dont discuss over and over again about the same thing arguing against each other. Respect the views of others even when you dont agree on them.

We defined clear goals (posted with the concept) that we plan to solve. Some of them will tackled with the game building game play but that is not ready yet. Let me just point out that inside one of that goals defined are the sheriff lists that cause hidden wars to harass players from the server etc. if they dont play along with the alliance in control.

Let's move on and share your views on the preseted concpet and its possible pitfalls etc.

mejor dame oro estoy pobre XD

 

[Targaryen]

Things that don't please players and make us have nothing more to do than hunt and get T-Rex :

Spoiler: Pictures

Recycled events year after year

 

[MX Power]

i dont think that every alliance will merge to clans as anyone who disagrees with alliances rules and etc. will be able to leave clan and just steal fame, what doesnt require to be "friendly" with alliance

There are always "Priorities", and the priority here would be to ultimately secure your elections. I do not think that anyone will like the idea of War Merges but that's what they would have to put up with, considering that this would be the only way.

I expect also former enemies to try put their differences aside and work together.

 

[MX Power]

If you're hold buildings, you are allowing yourself (clan) to be attacked. This is not peaceful no matter which way it is threaded. You are participating. If peace is the goal, protection is there to stop all forms of player combat, if someone is vocal then use the ignore button. An alliance is as close to peace as you are going to get without actually being peaceful.

Maybe "Sun Tzu" can explain it better to you.

Art of War : " 2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. "

You can still be a winner without having to fire a single shot, now that might contradict what you have personally experience and won't be very easy for you to comprehend, but understand that we are not afraid to fight, if we have to. We don't need protection, or ignore or whatever. The goal is ultimately to secure our elections, and that could still be done through peace.

Answer me one question. If you want buy a brand new car and someone offered you a deal for 25,000$ and another offered the same car in the same condition for 50,000$, then what offer you would naturally choose?

Although not being able to see who you are running against, is quite alarming and should not be a thing in my opinion. It is gambling money since supplies cost gc and you need to supply to gain fame.

I agree

Alliances will never go away, players will find a way around whatever rule or mechanic. Whether it is sending players to a clan, making a new one etc. Players will flock to whichever side is winning for a better chance at progressing. Cycle will never be broken.

I agree and already stated it, but the difference is servers will change from alliance dominated into merged clan dominated, since it is the only way to control where the fame goes, and does exactly the opposite of what the third goal of this updated aimed to achieve, giving more and more influence to single person, which is even worse than before.

Really nothing to argue about, these ideas arent final. Defending them vigorously is pointless and pointing out obvious flaws isn't helping.

I am just writing my feedback, and reply to those who address it.

 

[MX Power]

Let me just point out that inside one of that goals defined are the sheriff lists that cause hidden wars to harass players from the server etc. if they dont play along with the alliance in control.

I suppose that was already solved when you introduced the Token system and the re-elections, now every election is useful, and can generate tokens which are used to purchase T-Rex. Those who have many tokens will focus on getting re-elected in lower offices to obtain the remaining needed Tokens, and those with low number of tokens will aim to be elected in higher offices, such as sheriff to gather as much tokens as possible, and before you know it, the number of players obtaining T-Rex will rapidly increase.

 

[slejd2001]

the number of players obtaining T-Rex will rapidly increase.

i guess this will depend how much rex will cost

 

[MX Power]

i guess this will depend how much rex will cost

Also how much tokens Marshall & Deputy provides, if you get re-elected in it

 

[OrionZG]

Those who have many tokens will focus on getting re-elected in lower offices to obtain the remaining needed Tokens, and those with low number of tokens will aim to be elected in higher offices, such as sheriff to gather as much tokens as possible, and before you know it, the number of players obtaining T-Rex will rapidly increase.

I doubt it, the rex needs a lot of tokens in addition to other objects.
In addition, it will depend on where you choose, since most city council positions will be held, you can win a position, but your fame will be taken away, forcing you to get more fame for another time, but in that course other players will have had or achieved the necessary fame so they could take away one position / or another, and so on.

It will also depend on how the amount of token rewards is balanced, the sheriff should not turn over even 20% of the offered tokens for the maximum amount of a rex. Included with this, thanks to the token store, there will be more to spend, forcing you to lose tokens and continue the fame process. (And yes, the rewards should look tempting, all to keep players from not just focusing on the blissful rex.)

 

[OrionZG]

@Highway you should consider how to get the rex, don't just focus exclusively on tokens. There should be other necessary and exclusive elements for obtaining it, for example:

Tiranosaurus Rex (items to unlock):

•5000 tokens (this number is not real, it is a fictitious idea)

•1 Ranger certificate: (element that authorizes the purchase of dinosaurs (hehe), special or exotic weapons, or even another product). its cost will be for 1000 tokens and 10 documents

•Vaccines: (this does not mean that dinosaurs will have diseases, it is only one element). Its cost will be 250 tokens and 50k dino dollars.

•Documents: (items to obtaing certain resources): its cost will be 100 tokens and 10k dds.

And that would be the solution to prevent the rex population from increasing in the short / medium term, and that the players focus more on other elements. Obviously it doesn't have to be those specific elements, but it's just an idea. Also, i left you other ideas for the token store

 

[toxicdeathxZZ]

Art of War : " 2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. "

You can still be a winner without having to fire a single shot, now that might contradict what you have personally experience and won't be very easy for you to comprehend, but understand that we are not afraid to fight, if we have to. We don't need protection, or ignore or whatever. The goal is ultimately to secure our elections, and that could still be done through peace.

This is the political side of the game (alliances) which i already stated is the closest to peace without being peaceful.

By owning buildings you are participating in the war. No matter which way you put it, war is not peace my friend.

 

[ThiagoXDestruidor]

Vocês estão realmente achando que clãs pequenos conseguirão roubar a fama?

 

[David Moises]

At the moment I am loving how the update is progressing, there are points in which I did not like them very much but it is personal taste

I don't even want to read because they spend their time arguing, I know that the debate helps the feedback of ideas but it is too much xd

I think it would be better to wait for a more finished design to be able to give a more solid opinion, because as highway said, the model it gave is subject to change

 

[Pikachu Pika]

Exactly. For this reason, an update that reduces the influence of it and its leaders is necessary and that is why I defend that each clan must fight for its own objective. For the end of the great alliances that control servers I vote yes.

I dont know about your server, or how active it is during peace. But here the server is already active without any kind of war, we have many many clans which are waiting for elections and waiting for turns. Even if an alliance get all the maps, the clans arent enough to support the players. We are talking about an upgrate where the fame will be almost invissible for the players, it would give headache rather than fun. Yes, its fun to be at a war but you saw yourself in ptr after a while the players stoped fighting, and lets be honest most players here cant afford big wars, we are talking for a huge amount of money and with some stores we are talking about A LOT of money. Leaders and rhs are already doing a safe job, these people dont have to get thereselves into anxiety for such a thing, because imagine if u have to boost your member on daily bases everyday until the fame reach more than 10M. Lets think all the sides pls, not only the war one

 

[snnrk]

I dont know about your server, or how active it is during peace. But here the server is already active without any kind of war, we have many many clans which are waiting for elections and waiting for turns. Even if an alliance get all the maps, the clans arent enough to support the players. We are talking about an upgrate where the fame will be almost invissible for the players, it would give headache rather than fun. Yes, its fun to be at a war but you saw yourself in ptr after a while the players stoped fighting, and lets be honest most players here cant afford big wars, we are talking for a huge amount of money and with some stores we are talking about A LOT of money. Leaders and rhs are already doing a safe job, these people dont have to get thereselves into anxiety for such a thing, because imagine if u have to boost your member on daily bases everyday until the fame reach more than 10M. Lets think all the sides pls, not only the war one

Okay, let's go again. The "peace" that you crave is only beneficial for a very small group of players, as it is based on agreements between clans to ensure that everyone has positions without competition. This system suppresses any other player who does not want to follow the rules imposed by them and does not give chances to other clans to achieve any fame (generally the majority of active players are from these alliances).

Now tell me, is there any reason to keep playing like this? I know dozens of players who have given up the game because they have nothing to attack or defend, besides the fact that the distribution of fame in large clans opens loopholes to be done unfairly (which is the way I have seen the most in recent years).
If your server is active, wonderful, what is there for a lvl 55 to do on it? Maybe I will send a ticket asking to transfer my account.

Each clan being forced to act on its own guarantees that there will always be competitiveness, but that does not mean "infinite wars" as some have suggested, not least because this is impossible, but keep in mind that now you need to act in order to be rewarded. Of course, the way wars work has to be revised for this to work and there is a way to do it. I don't see where it prevents you from playing peacefully, if you don't want to be attacked use protection or don't get into disputes over facilities because it won't change anything, now if you just want to gain fame effortlessly I'm sorry, it's time for that to finish.
The sheriff's position must have a minimum of dignity and merit.

 

[S19]

An Addition to what @snnrk said.

Okay, let's assume that there's a 24/7 war non stop. Both parties would be limited in terms of resources. The enemy too would be like you're tired, out of supplies and out of war equipment. It's not like they'd go on forever.

Eventually they'd get to a point where they'll say "okay, we can't go on like this, we need a pause from the constant fight, let's take a break and gather DDS and we attack again next month"

Some of you are making it as if you'll be fighting non stop against bots lol.

 

[aurelio]

An Addition to what @snnrk said.

Okay, let's assume that there's a 24/7 war non stop. Both parties would be limited in terms of resources. The enemy too would be like you're tired, out of supplies and out of war equipment. It's not like they'd go on forever.

Eventually they'd get to a point where they'll say "okay, we can't go on like this, we need a pause from the constant fight, let's take a break and gather DDS and we attack again next month"

Some of you are making it as if you'll be fighting non stop against bots lol.

Im worried u the first ine thT will go off from ds and say my pc is broken i cant come sorry and when war stop u will come and say hello im here when is my election

 

[MX Power]

Okay, let's go again. The "peace" that you crave is only beneficial for a very small group of players,

I don't see how these reforms are gonna serve anyone, and at least before, we could reward our members for their efforts by supporting them with fame, and yes we are not able to satisfy everyone, because of the limited number of elections available. Now with these reforms it is more of a gamble, whether you fought effortlessly or not, there is no guarantees for your winning, so you could be someone who fought, and spent and struggled hard, but the dice didn't play in your favor.

This system suppresses any other player who does not want to follow the rules imposed by them and does not give chances to other clans to achieve any fame (generally the majority of active players are from these alliances).

This issue have been already tackled by two reforms I personally support. Being able to raid and plunder other clans gates and seize the fame in it, if it haven't been collected. And allowing re-elections, making it possible to obtain a Tyrannosaurus Rex through multiple winnings in minor offices. There is no excuse to hammer on stability and create chaos. Not because you are having it hard means everyone else should to.

Now tell me, is there any reason to keep playing like this?

While it is not perfect, it is better than the alternative.

I know dozens of players who have given up the game because they have nothing to attack or defend, besides the fact that the distribution of fame in large clans opens loopholes to be done unfairly (which is the way I have seen the most in recent years).

This is not the case for all servers, because through our free-choice, we were able to spread our influence far and wide, and create different opportunities for all people of all levels in many many different clans that spanned the server. These reforms will not cut the influence of those single individuals that haunted your past, rather strength it through players paranoia and that would be the case for us as well.

None will choose a gamble over guaranteed chances for their hard work, therefore, they will fight the system and centralize the influence of server into the hands of single individuals whom are going to control who wins and who doesn't, and even though this is undesirable, and it will create many internal issues, it is still for most players a better option than absolute chaos.

Each clan being forced to act on its own guarantees that there will always be competitiveness, but that does not mean "infinite wars" as some have suggested, not least because this is impossible,

The concept of Infinite or as how I prefer to call it "Endless War" is confirmed as a consequence of one undeniable fact. "Peace, negotiations, compromises, & cease fires are all pointless". The goal is to secure your elections, by any means necessary, and since all reforms push for a gamble, the only way to guarantee a win is to centralize influence, and that would be by giving it all to someone you respect and trust, and fighting to take it from someone you don't.

For us, the concept is very real, because we are too stubborn to submit, since we value our freedom more than anything and the only options we have, is keeping fighting a costly war or leave the game itself. That might not be the case for your server, or your people, but it is not my right to judge.

but keep in mind that now you need to act in order to be rewarded. Of course, the way wars work has to be revised for this to work and there is a way to do it. I don't see where it prevents you from playing peacefully, if you don't want to be attacked use protection or don't get into disputes over facilities because it won't change anything,

And that is the part where still none of you understands. The goal is not to play peacefully, the goal is to secure our elections through peace. And maybe Peace is a strong word, for it means you being immune to attacks; that sort of idealism is too good to be real anyway. No, by peace, it means passive defense, where we fight only if necessary to secure what we hold, while at the same time sharing influence with other people, without being forced to attack them to make sure that they don't use that influence against us.

We share our influence willingly and expect those whom we shared it with to respect our share of holds and not try to seize it, to conserve our resources for more real threats, not be forced to play this game 24/7, waste as little money on gold coins as possible, and enjoy our game with fun fights as our own choice, rather than being forced to fight major wars and waste our resources and time, and money in vain because other people deem it more fun when we could have simply choose to do just that if we actually agreed with them before, but now that choice would be taken away from us.

I hope that oversimplification can reach your mindset.

now if you just want to gain fame effortlessly I'm sorry, it's time for that to finish.
The sheriff's position must have a minimum of dignity and merit.

I will not comment on that, because your personal experience is none of my business, and our own experience is impossible for you to comprehend.