#12 Endgame Game Mechanics Discussion

[MX Power]

Okay, let's go again. The "peace" that you crave is only beneficial for a very small group of players,

I don't see how these reforms are gonna serve anyone, and at least before, we could reward our members for their efforts by supporting them with fame, and yes we are not able to satisfy everyone, because of the limited number of elections available. Now with these reforms it is more of a gamble, whether you fought effortlessly or not, there is no guarantees for your winning, so you could be someone who fought, and spent and struggled hard, but the dice didn't play in your favor.

This system suppresses any other player who does not want to follow the rules imposed by them and does not give chances to other clans to achieve any fame (generally the majority of active players are from these alliances).

This issue have been already tackled by two reforms I personally support. Being able to raid and plunder other clans gates and seize the fame in it, if it haven't been collected. And allowing re-elections, making it possible to obtain a Tyrannosaurus Rex through multiple winnings in minor offices. There is no excuse to hammer on stability and create chaos. Not because you are having it hard means everyone else should to.

Now tell me, is there any reason to keep playing like this?

While it is not perfect, it is better than the alternative.

I know dozens of players who have given up the game because they have nothing to attack or defend, besides the fact that the distribution of fame in large clans opens loopholes to be done unfairly (which is the way I have seen the most in recent years).

This is not the case for all servers, because through our free-choice, we were able to spread our influence far and wide, and create different opportunities for all people of all levels in many many different clans that spanned the server. These reforms will not cut the influence of those single individuals that haunted your past, rather strength it through players paranoia and that would be the case for us as well.

None will choose a gamble over guaranteed chances for their hard work, therefore, they will fight the system and centralize the influence of server into the hands of single individuals whom are going to control who wins and who doesn't, and even though this is undesirable, and it will create many internal issues, it is still for most players a better option than absolute chaos.

Each clan being forced to act on its own guarantees that there will always be competitiveness, but that does not mean "infinite wars" as some have suggested, not least because this is impossible,

The concept of Infinite or as how I prefer to call it "Endless War" is confirmed as a consequence of one undeniable fact. "Peace, negotiations, compromises, & cease fires are all pointless". The goal is to secure your elections, by any means necessary, and since all reforms push for a gamble, the only way to guarantee a win is to centralize influence, and that would be by giving it all to someone you respect and trust, and fighting to take it from someone you don't.

For us, the concept is very real, because we are too stubborn to submit, since we value our freedom more than anything and the only options we have, is keeping fighting a costly war or leave the game itself. That might not be the case for your server, or your people, but it is not my right to judge.

but keep in mind that now you need to act in order to be rewarded. Of course, the way wars work has to be revised for this to work and there is a way to do it. I don't see where it prevents you from playing peacefully, if you don't want to be attacked use protection or don't get into disputes over facilities because it won't change anything,

And that is the part where still none of you understands. The goal is not to play peacefully, the goal is to secure our elections through peace. And maybe Peace is a strong word, for it means you being immune to attacks; that sort of idealism is too good to be real anyway. No, by peace, it means passive defense, where we fight only if necessary to secure what we hold, while at the same time sharing influence with other people, without being forced to attack them to make sure that they don't use that influence against us.

We share our influence willingly and expect those whom we shared it with to respect our share of holds and not try to seize it, to conserve our resources for more real threats, not be forced to play this game 24/7, waste as little money on gold coins as possible, and enjoy our game with fun fights as our own choice, rather than being forced to fight major wars and waste our resources and time, and money in vain because other people deem it more fun when we could have simply choose to do just that if we actually agreed with them before, but now that choice would be taken away from us.

I hope that oversimplification can reach your mindset.

now if you just want to gain fame effortlessly I'm sorry, it's time for that to finish.
The sheriff's position must have a minimum of dignity and merit.

I will not comment on that, because your personal experience is none of my business, and our own experience is impossible for you to comprehend.

 

[MX Power]

Eventually they'd get to a point where they'll say "okay, we can't go on like this, we need a pause from the constant fight, let's take a break and gather DDS and we attack again next month"

There is a key difference between giving up on fighting and not being forced to fight. The first you give up on all you have fought for, and second, you still get keep it.

 

[snnrk]

I don't see how these reforms are gonna serve anyone, and at least before, we could reward our members for their efforts by supporting them with fame, and yes we are not able to satisfy everyone, because of the limited number of elections available. Now with these reforms it is more of a gamble, whether you fought effortlessly or not, there is no guarantees for your winning, so you could be someone who fought, and spent and struggled hard, but the dice didn't play in your favor.



This issue have been already tackled by two reforms I personally support. Being able to raid and plunder other clans gates and seize the fame in it, if it haven't been collected. And allowing re-elections, making it possible to obtain a Tyrannosaurus Rex through multiple winnings in minor offices. There is no excuse to hammer on stability and create chaos. Not because you are having it hard means everyone else should to.



While it is not perfect, it is better than the alternative.



This is not the case for all servers, because through our free-choice, we were able to spread our influence far and wide, and create different opportunities for all people of all levels in many many different clans that spanned the server. These reforms will not cut the influence of those single individuals that haunted your past, rather strength it through players paranoia and that would be the case for us as well.

None will choose a gamble over guaranteed chances for their hard work, therefore, they will fight the system and centralize the influence of server into the hands of single individuals whom are going to control who wins and who doesn't, and even though this is undesirable, and it will create many internal issues, it is still for most players a better option than absolute chaos.



The concept of Infinite or as how I prefer to call it "Endless War" is confirmed as a consequence of one undeniable fact. "Peace, negotiations, compromises, & cease fires are all pointless". The goal is to secure your elections, by any means necessary, and since all reforms push for a gamble, the only way to guarantee a win is to centralize influence, and that would be by giving it all to someone you respect and trust, and fighting to take it from someone you don't.

For us, the concept is very real, because we are too stubborn to submit, since we value our freedom more than anything and the only options we have, is keeping fighting a costly war or leave the game itself. That might not be the case for your server, or your people, but it is not my right to judge.



And that is the part where still none of you understands. The goal is not to play peacefully, the goal is to secure our elections through peace. And maybe Peace is a strong word, for it means you being immune to attacks; that sort of idealism is too good to be real anyway. No, by peace, it means passive defense, where we fight only if necessary to secure what we hold, while at the same time sharing influence with other people, without being forced to attack them to make sure that they don't use that influence against us.

We share our influence willingly and expect those whom we shared it with to respect our share of holds and not try to seize it, to conserve our resources for more real threats, not be forced to play this game 24/7, waste as little money on gold coins as possible, and enjoy our game with fun fights as our own choice, rather than being forced to fight major wars and waste our resources and time, and money in vain because other people deem it more fun when we could have simply choose to do just that if we actually agreed with them before, but now that choice would be taken away from us.

I hope that oversimplification can reach your mindset.



I will not comment on that, because your personal experience is none of my business, and our own experience is impossible for you to comprehend.

Bro, didn't we agree that the conversation between us had come to an end on this subject? Neither of us will convince the other, it's over. I just came back on this subject to answer the guy who marked me, I already passed my point of view and I have nothing more to add.

While it is not perfect, it is better than the alternative.

?

 

[MX Power]

Bro, didn't we agree that the conversation between us had come to an end on this subject? Neither of us will convince the other, it's over. I just came back on this subject to answer the guy who marked me, I already passed my point of view and I have nothing more to add.

Replies are not only for you, since I see couple forum users repeating the same words, and if I didn't make our complaints clear at first, I wanted it to be this time.

I don't mind that you address my points in the future.

 

[mydarius1998]

dear ppl who are saying update is good, if u send video, in which u're playing 24/7... protecting builds i will kiss ur foot now and say gj gms i love ur update

 

[MX Power]

@Highway

Questions:

1. About the possibility to be re-elected, can a player with high ranking office get elected in lower ranking office?
   • Example: Retired Sheriff apply for Marshall office.
2. About question number [1], if the answer is "Yes", is their status permanently effected with the last office they have applied to, or are they marked with the highest office they applied to?
   • Example: Retired Sheriff applied for Marshall office and now retired, considered retired sheriff or retired Marshall?
3. What is the fate of retired sheriff?
   1. Do they receive Tokens for all offices they have unlocked?
   2. Does the Tyrannosaurus Rex lock expires?
   3. About question number [1], if the answer is "No", and question number [3] section [1], if the answer is "No", what are Sheriffs suppose to do when there is only one office available for them to generate tokens from and there is fierce competition for it?
4. Are tokens generated by Marshall office relatively close in number to that generated by Sheriff office?
5. What do tokens do exactly in terms of obtaining a Tyrannosaurus Rex?
   1. Unlock Tyrannosaurus Rex?
   2. Purchase one Tyrannosaurus Rex at level similar to its user?
   3. Both [1] & [2]?
6. About question [5] section [1] & [3] if the answer is "No" & section [2] if the answer is "Yes":
   1. Does it mean that we will be forced to collect tokens all over again, if we want to purchase a second Tyrannosaurus Rex?
   2. Won't Tyrannosaurus Rex be available for Gold Coins/Gemstones?

I am also waiting for an answer to these questions:

Points you failed to mention:

• Are players sharing same clan still incapable of competing in same office despite not knowing who is actually competing?
• How can we handle fame items? Considering that we need handle them fast before buildings get attacked, there is still that hardcore issue of sending fame from clan inventory to player inventory by extreme number of click and even number of window reloads. You have to find solution for this issue before proceeding this update.
• Can fame items still be stored? I don't think it should be, but instantly converted to fame once delivered from Clan Inventory to Player Inventory.

 

[Pleiadian]

All of these are starting to become a headache to read just because the fame of a player would stay hidden from others.

 

[Pikachu Pika]

Okay, let's go again. The "peace" that you crave is only beneficial for a very small group of players, as it is based on agreements between clans to ensure that everyone has positions without competition. This system suppresses any other player who does not want to follow the rules imposed by them and does not give chances to other clans to achieve any fame (generally the majority of active players are from these alliances).

Now tell me, is there any reason to keep playing like this? I know dozens of players who have given up the game because they have nothing to attack or defend, besides the fact that the distribution of fame in large clans opens loopholes to be done unfairly (which is the way I have seen the most in recent years).
If your server is active, wonderful, what is there for a lvl 55 to do on it? Maybe I will send a ticket asking to transfer my account.

Each clan being forced to act on its own guarantees that there will always be competitiveness, but that does not mean "infinite wars" as some have suggested, not least because this is impossible, but keep in mind that now you need to act in order to be rewarded. Of course, the way wars work has to be revised for this to work and there is a way to do it. I don't see where it prevents you from playing peacefully, if you don't want to be attacked use protection or don't get into disputes over facilities because it won't change anything, now if you just want to gain fame effortlessly I'm sorry, it's time for that to finish.
The sheriff's position must have a minimum of dignity and merit.

I agree that this game need wars man, its true that after a while its getting boring but cmon u saw yourself in ptr everyone stoped playing after a while. If u want players to keep playing this game u have to balance peace and war times, this is also up to the server if it wants unstoppable wars. As i said a war isnt just about shooting, players are giving money and time on that, its not easy at all to do such a thing.

I want u to imagine that your clan is getting blocked again and again without really noticing it, losing to a war for whatever reasons and actually having a true mess, do u thing that players wont get tired of this? do u think that leaders and rhs will be able to do something with all that fame thing?? We are talking about a luck game rn. These elections are suppost to be the ones you win and earn from whatever u gave in game, not because you have to run in each map to collect and give fame everyday it case a low attack or a war to start.

Lets be realistic, it will be SUPER hard to control elections like that because it will be just a luck game...just boost fame to make sure that your member will not lose...and if it lose u never know if u members will leave. The game would be just a mess

 

[toxicdeathxZZ]

by peace, it means passive defense, where we fight only if necessary to secure what we hold

All that arguing could of been avoided if you used the right terminology thats just defending which isnt peace btw.

 

[Pleiadian]

thats just defending which isnt peace btw.

On point.

There's a total of 12 Sheriffs (per year, from the 6 clans) at stake here, obviously, they would defend it in any way they can.

Read the points below and understand correctly why so much fuss.

• We have 3 separated alliances with different goals.
• The Alliance I'm in consists of 6 clans.
• The other two alliances, one consists of 5 clans, and the other consists of 2.
• Despite being the majority in our server, we have maintained peace in our server, and only fought when necessary.
• Our alliance have 50% of Sheriff and Governor elections,

 

[MX Power]

All that arguing could of been avoided if you used the right terminology thats just defending which isnt peace btw.

Meh, I think I explained what I meant by it in multiple occasions, but yes, it is passive defense and deescalation of any emerging tension. Help us keep the peace, so that's how we call it

 

[MX Power]

There's a total of 12 Sheriffs (per year, from the 6 clans) at stake here, obviously, they would defend it in any way they can.

2 per Clan yearly which doesn't seem much

 

[slejd2001]

What is the fate of retired sheriff?

1. Do they receive Tokens for all offices they have unlocked?
2. Does the Tyrannosaurus Rex lock expires?

1.

If an office has been won the player earns “Dinoville Tokens”

Only earned by winning an office in the town hall

2.

Remove the sheriff limitation for the normal T-Rex but it requires a large amount of “Dinoville Tokens” to purchase it.

I'm not highway but i guess he already said about those things which you asked about

 

[slejd2001]

u saw yourself in ptr everyone stoped playing after a while.

lets go again I guess this proves that there might not be endless wars

 

[snnrk]

I agree that this game need wars man, its true that after a while its getting boring but cmon u saw yourself in ptr everyone stoped playing after a while. If u want players to keep playing this game u have to balance peace and war times, this is also up to the server if it wants unstoppable wars. As i said a war isnt just about shooting, players are giving money and time on that, its not easy at all to do such a thing.

I want u to imagine that your clan is getting blocked again and again without really noticing it, losing to a war for whatever reasons and actually having a true mess, do u thing that players wont get tired of this? do u think that leaders and rhs will be able to do something with all that fame thing?? We are talking about a luck game rn. These elections are suppost to be the ones you win and earn from whatever u gave in game, not because you have to run in each map to collect and give fame everyday it case a low attack or a war to start.

Lets be realistic, it will be SUPER hard to control elections like that because it will be just a luck game...just boost fame to make sure that your member will not lose...and if it lose u never know if u members will leave. The game would be just a mess

You cannot compare the PTR with the live servers, they are places with different proposals. As I recall, the people who were there to test and give feedback remained active while they were open, the rest were there just out of curiosity or to use the rex for free, anyway. We will wait for more information.

 

[shadowzombie]

We are thankful for all the incoming feedback, as it is both important and valuable for Dino Storm development. The suggestions you’ve sent us so far have shown us that our plans for adjusting the game’s maps would not really affect the root of the issues at hand, and therefore not have the effects desired by the community.
Although there are many different facets and perspectives to your feedback, most of you wrote about attacking and controlling sites in order to earn fame and ultimately be elected Sheriff in the town hall, which also provides access to the precious tyrannosaurus rex. However, the most obvious aspects in gameplay are not always the ones at the root of the problem, which is why we attempt to dig deeper and gain additional analytical data—from the game, testers and GMs alike. This way, we want to reach the core of the issue. Going from the observations we have made so far, we are not convinced that revising the game’s maps alone would improve gameplay enough to be satisfactory.

In the last few days we had been intensively discussing a number of design iterations and concepts—but the further we went and discussed possible solutions, the more it became obvious that we would actually need to think about changing the main gameplay path for unlocking T-Rex. We already had ideas for changing the endgame mechanics and concepts on our to-do list, and now we needed to figure out whether we will have to tackle these ideas before or after any potential map adjustments are made.

We condensed the list of issues and points that need to be addressed down to:

• Server-spanning alliances misusing their influence, deciding who gets and doesn’t get the T-Rex
• Stalling endgame as soon as T-Rex has been unlocked
• Rather boring and predictable gameplay around sites (Travel Gates, Claims)

Let us know what you think, or if we are missing important key points!

when this going to happend is going be this year or next year when?

 

[MX Power]

I'm not highway but i guess he already said about those things which you asked about

These quotes still doesn't answer my questions, because it is unrelated. My question about sheriffs is for people who already won, and the quote is about the ones who just won an office after the update supposedly implemented.

Again my second question is since we already unlocked T-Rex by becoming sheriffs, do we have to unlock it again? Clearly the quote state that there will be a new way of unlocking, not what's going to happen to sheriffs whom already unlocked T-Rex

 

[Targaryen]

I would like to address another very important issue in relation to maps, which is a matter of time. I am tired of having to make schedules for my members to supply, each of them work, study at different times, in other words, I have to set aside times for each 1 to supply, and the worst time is the dawn that no one is able to go to.

 

[- Souldger -]

Realmente veo innecesario todas estas discusiones, digo, no sabemos como realmente afectara la actualización al juego, es por eso que es mejor esperar a un PTR donde podremos dar verdaderos puntos de vistas y saber como será realmente en vez de estar rompiéndonos la cabeza (es lo que yo creo XD).

 

[Highway]

Recycled events year after year

New Events take time to create and right now we are focusing on long term updates to improve the game. Having more than one goal apart from the T-Rex certainly will help to have somthing to fight for.

1. About the possibility to be re-elected, can a player with high ranking office get elected in lower ranking office?
2. About question number [1], if the answer is "Yes", is their status permanently effected with the last office
3. What is the fate of retired sheriff?
4. Are tokens generated by Marshall office relatively close in number to that generated by Sheriff office?

I am also waiting for an answer to these questions:

1. & 2. Yes its planned that you can apply to any office again even when its lower than your current one. Your ranger profie medal shows always the highest rank icon you have earned.

3. Tokens are won only by winning an election in an office. Once a sheriff has been won he must apply for offices again to get more tokens. The t-rex will be purchased with X tokens + gems or gold and once purchased the tokens must be gathered again in case you want a second rex . But there will be more cool stuff that can be optained with tokens

4. The tokens won per position is balanced in a way that it is always better to win higher positions in terms of tokens per months. For example you can expect ~1:100 ratio between the lowest to the sheriff office in terms of token rewards.

• Are players sharing same clan still incapable of competing in same office despite not knowing who is actually competing?
• How can we handle fame items? Considering that we need handle them fast before buildings get attacked, there is still that hardcore issue of sending fame from clan inventory to player inventory by extreme number of click and even number of window reloads. You have to find solution for this issue before proceeding this update.
• Can fame items still be stored? I don't think it should be, but instantly converted to fame once delivered from Clan Inventory to Player Inventory.

Players that are part of the same clan should be able to apply for the same office.

As for the building rewards, they are still planned to work as usual and placed in the clan inventory and the clan must plan how they split them between its members. Sure directly converting them to fame would reduce the need of inventory space But i might be better to have a system in place that automatically gives the player that picks them up from the buildings the fame?

when this going to happend is going be this year or next year when?

We have not a time estimate for this yet as the concept is not finished to be able to plan the effort it needs to get finished. For this concept we wanted to involve the community earlier as usual to keep the feedback flowing but that also means it takes more time from the annoucment until the final live release.


Looking through the feedback some points have been noted in the design concept. I might have missed some consens in feedback though. Let me know when that is the case.
Here are a few points changed:

• Players loosing an election will not loose 75% of their invested fame anymore. Instead this will be lowered or even removed completly to support the "step by step closer to the goal" idea even more.
• Appling for an office will cost a lot more dino dollars to accomedate for the reduced fame when loosing an office.
  • The dollar price will depend on the ranger level.
• PVP protection price will be changed from fame to dino dollars (by ranger level)

Apart from that I just want to throw in a very early draft of current iteration about the game buildings. I hope it is easier to get a better overall picuture of the end game mechanics.

Game Buildings

• Once a building is supplied by a clan after an x minutes cooldown PVE attacks will emerge to claim the rewards from the building.
• Defended PVE attacks will grant the building with extra reward items based on how many attacks have been defended.
• Attacks will get more frequent based on the time the building is held and by the amount of rewards that are currently stored in the building.
• PVE Attackers willl drain the supply of the building when they are inside the building radius.
• PVE Attacker will steal all items from the building when the have successfully unsuplied the building.

 

[Targaryen]

• PVE Attacker will steal all items from the building when the have successfully unsuplied the building.

That is, are we not going to have serious problems with players who use kits to steal items from portals?

 

[Alewx]

That is, are we not going to have serious problems with players who use kits to steal items from portals?

How do you mean that exactly?

 

[Targaryen]

How do you mean that exactly?

I mentioned this in the topic about Kits, for example: Ame4 is a place where there are rich people. They squander kits and steal portals quickly using automatic click, which means that no one can stop you from taking the portal.
In the question presented, you suggested who takes the portal, you can maintain the fame / items of the portal in this case. Players with these kits + the automatic click always take camps together without a problem.
My solution: Make the portals * Unstable * using only teleportation, as soon as the portal is stable, you gain fame

 

[Alewx]

I mentioned this in the topic about Kits, for example: Ame4 is a place where there are rich people. They squander kits and steal portals quickly using automatic click, which means that no one can stop you from taking the portal.
In the question presented, you suggested who takes the portal, you can maintain the fame / items of the portal in this case. Players with these kits + the automatic click always take camps together without a problem.
My solution: Make the portals * Unstable * using only teleportation, as soon as the portal is stable, you gain fame

But the quote talks explizitly about PvE Attackers.

 

[Targaryen]

But the quote talks explizitly about PvE Attackers.

I found it confusing, maybe I translated it wrong

 

[XxSr.DinoxX]

But the quote talks explizitly about PvE Attackers.

She said if the possibility of seeing a player steal the map prizes was removed, if that was contradicted in the @Highway message, maybe @Maddy Montgomery and I have translated it wrong.

 

[XxSr.DinoxX]

She said if the possibility of seeing a player steal the map prizes was removed, if that was contradicted in the @Highway message, maybe @Maddy Montgomery and I have translated it wrong.

 

[Galaxy]

New Events take time to create and right now we are focusing on long term updates to improve the game. Having more than one goal apart from the T-Rex certainly will help to have somthing to fight for.



1. & 2. Yes its planned that you can apply to any office again even when its lower than your current one. Your ranger profie medal shows always the highest rank icon you have earned.

3. Tokens are won only by winning an election in an office. Once a sheriff has been won he must apply for offices again to get more tokens. The t-rex will be purchased with X tokens + gems or gold and once purchased the tokens must be gathered again in case you want a second rex . But there will be more cool stuff that can be optained with tokens

4. The tokens won per position is balanced in a way that it is always better to win higher positions in terms of tokens per months. For example you can expect ~1:100 ratio between the lowest to the sheriff office in terms of token rewards.



Players that are part of the same clan should be able to apply for the same office.

As for the building rewards, they are still planned to work as usual and placed in the clan inventory and the clan must plan how they split them between its members. Sure directly converting them to fame would reduce the need of inventory space But i might be better to have a system in place that automatically gives the player that picks them up from the buildings the fame?



We have not a time estimate for this yet as the concept is not finished to be able to plan the effort it needs to get finished. For this concept we wanted to involve the community earlier as usual to keep the feedback flowing but that also means it takes more time from the annoucment until the final live release.


Looking through the feedback some points have been noted in the design concept. I might have missed some consens in feedback though. Let me know when that is the case.
Here are a few points changed:

• Players loosing an election will not loose 75% of their invested fame anymore. Instead this will be lowered or even removed completly to support the "step by step closer to the goal" idea even more.
• Appling for an office will cost a lot more dino dollars to accomedate for the reduced fame when loosing an office.
  • The dollar price will depend on the ranger level.
• PVP protection price will be changed from fame to dino dollars (by ranger level)

Apart from that I just want to throw in a very early draft of current iteration about the game buildings. I hope it is easier to get a better overall picuture of the end game mechanics.

Game Buildings

• Once a building is supplied by a clan after an x minutes cooldown PVE attacks will emerge to claim the rewards from the building.
• Defended PVE attacks will grant the building with extra reward items based on how many attacks have been defended.
• Attacks will get more frequent based on the time the building is held and by the amount of rewards that are currently stored in the building.
• PVE Attackers willl drain the supply of the building when they are inside the building radius.
• PVE Attacker will steal all items from the building when the have successfully unsuplied the building.

then the portals will also be attacked by bot bandits? this is going to be interesting

 

[JHON JAIRO]

But the quote talks explizitly about PvE Attackers.

you can see that you're aware what happens is that today there are many players who are using auto click to steal portals in a few words 1k click per second

 

[Highway]

Stealing rewards from a building remains preset for PVP building combat concept that is written under "Game Building Rewards"