Feedback Wanted: Site Conflict Adjustments (3.2)

[DarkMyth.]

Problem:
Attackers are still using brachis and ankys to go afk in site to drain.

Solution:
Let's introduce to the game something called 'active draining'

How would it work?
Draining the site would require from the attacker to be active while doing it to make attacking effect take place. If an attacker is afk and not taking any action for longer amount of time than 5 seconds - attacking effect dissapears.

What would it solve?
Multi acc draining problem, it would also force attackers to fight not only to stay on tank and do nothing.

Doesn’t sound bad however it wouldn’t really solve the real issue there

People can use softwares such as autoclicker and set it up to move them around on specific spots so they’re not just “afk draining”

There’s two solutions, however attackers will complain as it’ll be more balanced but I’ll mention it again:

- Draining/Repairing gets paused while defender/attacker are battling in site (as it makes no sense for the defender to lose site overtime while he’s battling in there)


- Dynamic draining depending on dino class and tanks should have slower drain speed

Also maybe have we considered adjusting the drain / repair rate? The rate is high as allies were able to help

And I’d like to also add the fact that if you want to keep attacks for free, then holding sites should also be for free, otherwise it makes no sense for the attacker to win sites and fame without paying anything for it while the defending clan did pay to produce this fame, efforts should be mutual in this case

One more thing I’d like to point out again, all this update against alliances is pushing clans into creating alliances as alone they can’t actually hold, 2 clans in a war with each other will swap sites nonstop, no winner in this case. Until a third-party joins and helps, you need numbers with all of this and numbers aren’t really big when it’s a war between 2 clans, that’s how allies become a thing

 

[Pleiadian]

And I’d like to also add the fact that if you want to keep attacks for free, then holding sites should also be for free, otherwise it makes no sense for the attacker to win sites and fame without paying anything for it while the defending clan did pay to produce this fame, efforts should be mutual in this case

I was very heavily against this idea, but when it is put in this way, then there's some sense to it.

There are attackers who are only appearing on the Site with no tower held using Tank, that same attacker got high drain points. While the defenders with a minimum of 3 Sites will struggle against a Tank, the attackers would have obtained the Site for basically free.

Looking at that situation from the Defender's perspective, the defender is being forced to use Dollars to upgrade the tower which would be inevitably lost against an enemy favoring survival dino over fighting.

Also maybe have we considered adjusting the drain / repair rate? The rate is high as allies were able to help

When we use the word alliance in this discussion, we mainly refer to defending alliances. But now the attacking side also can create their own alliance and take unfair advantage of that high drain rate. Each of those players can easily obtain 5,000 fame when their attack succeeds.

If every attacking player creates his own clan only to take advantage of the high drain points, then the repair points have to go up by a slight margin to compensate for this situation.

 

[DarkMyth.]

I was very heavily against this idea, but when it is put in this way, then there's some sense to it.

There are attackers who are only appearing on the Site with no tower held using Tank, that same attacker got high drain points. While the defenders with a minimum of 3 Sites will struggle against a Tank, the attackers would have obtained the Site for basically free.

Looking at that situation from the Defender's perspective, the defender is being forced to use Dollars to upgrade the tower which would be inevitably lost against an enemy favoring survival dino over fighting.

From what I’ve been seeing, attackers don’t plan on holding sites (or at least on my main server)

Why? Because why would they hold sites while they attack for free and gain the fame we produced with our dds and efforts

Attackers would wait till defenders make the sites excellent once again (which costs the defender 83k clan funds) and then they would focus their forces to take these excellent sites 1 by 1 no matter which clans takes it - this site has 5,600 or 7,680 fame if it was a claim, and that’s nearly the same amount you make from your clothes on a daily basis and you get it with the minimal effort

Yes it’s a lot fame and shouldn’t be taken for nothing in return - sometimes on my server attackers are able to take 12-13 sites (happened yesterday) and these sites are split between their clans but one clan (main one) had 5 sites itself, all these sites were excellent (I think) including 1 or 2 claims, that’s A LOT of fame and nothing was spent in order to win it except dds to respawn which isn’t something to relate in this case

 

[istencsaszar]

From what I’ve been seeing, attackers don’t plan on holding sites (or at least on my main server)

Why? Because why would they hold sites while they attack for free and gain the fame we produced with our dds and efforts

Attackers would wait till defenders make the sites excellent once again (which costs the defender 83k clan funds) and then they would focus their forces to take these excellent sites 1 by 1 no matter which clans takes it - this site has 5,600 or 7,680 fame if it was a claim, and that’s nearly the same amount you make from your clothes on a daily basis and you get it with the minimal effort

Yes it’s a lot fame and shouldn’t be taken for nothing in return - sometimes on my server attackers are able to take 12-13 sites (happened yesterday) and these sites are split between their clans but one clan (main one) had 5 sites itself, all these sites were excellent (I think) including 1 or 2 claims, that’s A LOT of fame and nothing was spent in order to win it except dds to respawn which isn’t something to relate in this case

Defenders aren't forced to upgrade either. They can keep lower yields in order to save dds. 400% yield is a luxury, not a default.

Attackers also lose way more dds than defenders since they die more often. Also, those sites were taken by many players, and only for one attack phase. That amount of fame is still a small fragment of what a defender alliance with 5 whole maps gets on the daily.

The fact that attackers also have to split clans ensures that even if they take a lot of sites the fame doesn't go to the same person.

 

[Pleiadian]

Defenders aren't forced to upgrade either. They can keep lower yields in order to save dds. 400% yield is a luxury, not a default.

This is subjective to each server but from the calculation.

Keeping at a low yield means that the sites are producing meager fame that gets overlapped by Ores Farming. You could argue to not put the Site at 50%, but rather at 200%, but still, Farming Ores overpowers those Sites that are not 400%.

Attackers also lose way more dds than defenders since they die more often.

I don't know your math, but it's not adding up to your statement. Because defenders have to upgrade until 400% to yield acceptable rewards from the site holdings.

Now, you are at a weird place where the defenders are in a weird spot. If they don't upgrade their Site, then Farming Ores is just better, and holding Sites is nearly useless, because what fame are you obtaining from anything lower than 400%

(Also, if the Sites were 50%, I wouldn't even bother attacking it, because first it gives me such a small reward and it reduces my drain rates.)

If they upgrade to 400%, there's an army of tanks that's present, and no amount of defenders present would be able to save the Site, because of their high drain rate.

 

[DarkMyth.]

Defenders aren't forced to upgrade either. They can keep lower yields in order to save dds. 400% yield is a luxury, not a default.

Attackers also lose way more dds than defenders since they die more often. Also, those sites were taken by many players, and only for one attack phase. That amount of fame is still a small fragment of what a defender alliance with 5 whole maps gets on the daily.

The fact that attackers also have to split clans ensures that even if they take a lot of sites the fame doesn't go to the same person.

What you just wrote proved nothing, you're basically telling defenders to maintain basic yields and nobody would profit, which will also lead to swapping sites between allies meaning attackers won't have much to attack anymore unlike now

Yes you lose dds from dying but as a defender I lose around 50-100k and sometimes much more depending on the situation (not counting what we spend on holding sites) a phase from teleporting to sites, from map to another and sometimes dying, so you're not spending dds on respawning/teleporting alone, you can't have everything the easy way, it was extremely hard to drain and win gates in the past, now it's the opposite, but now you're able to steal the fame after you take that site, and you're doing it for free

It's MY problem to farm my own dds to continue being able to teleport around and defend my sites / or attack, if you don't farm dds to prepare for phases then what are you even trying to prove?

- Are you (as an attacker) gonna be motivated to log and attack a site which has 700 fame (and most likely will be swapped between allied clans) or you'd rather attack for a site which has 5,600 fame for a little effort in return? (unless you don't want to put any effort)

- Will allies be able to close their ally's sites while you want to attack?

- Will allies be able to swap sites or even use alts to drain their own sites so you attackers get nothing?

- Will allies let you farm ores if they'll put basic yields and swap? (because they're gonna be actively using claims as their fame income)

Sometimes we need to look at the bigger picture and not just our own benefit

 

[Domino]

I see 2 people with the exact same clan name as mine. One with a whitespace on the end and another an uppercase i stead of and l.
Made my name so original /j but what is this hahaha

 

[istencsaszar]

Sometimes we need to look at the bigger picture and not just our own benefit

Because the "defender in the circle stop the drain" bs that you claim is so balanced is not only to your benefit. That would result in healers kamikazeing into the circle and dying/not fighting one after another while nothing is happening, and this would go gon for the whole attack phase since there are no shortage of defenders.

Also you are saying that farming dd is the concern of the individual player. Yet you and your alliance are crying for spending too much dd on sites.

Site trading is only a problem at 50% gates, which no defender will keep long term.

it was extremely hard to drain and win gates in the past, now it's the opposite

Let's just say you have 0 idea. It's easy for the first few only, after that it becomes hard. If there are no/too few/afk defenders from a certain clan during an attack phase, then that's not the attackers fault and they will seize the opportunity. Only then are they able to get more gates, and that's how it should be.

If they upgrade to 400%, there's an army of tanks that's present, and no amount of defenders present would be able to save the Site, because of their high drain rate.

Again you are talking without knowing anything about the situation.

Today they had no problem defending several sites against twice as much tanks as the usual (another attacker clan came back to the server). Tanks die fast(<10 s) if there is a slight bit of coordination, out with the tank nerf ideas, brachi is already trash in normal pvp.

The fact that you consider anything lower than 400% "nearly useless" is funny. A defender clan must suffer in some way because of the attacks. Either that it's fame or it's dds.

 

[DarkMyth.]

Because the "defender in the circle stop the drain" bs that you claim is so balanced is not only to your benefit. That would result in healers kamikazeing into the circle and dying/not fighting one after another while nothing is happening, and this would go gon for the whole attack phase since there are no shortage of defenders.

So a war between clans seems normal for you if your clan took the map, next phase your clan lost the map, then retook the next phase and so on...? That's normal war for you? To have 10-15 brachios sitting waiting to claim the site? I ain't complaining about nothing, I'm stating facts of what's needed and the only one who's against it is you & your clan because you know it will be slightly harder for you to capture 10+ sites as you're doing nowadays

Also you are saying that farming dd is the concern of the individual player. Yet you and your alliance are crying for spending too much dd on sites.

Again with the provokes

It has nothing to do with what you even wrote, it's a solution for almost every server mostly those who struggle from the alliance abusing this free attacking by site swapping (same way we can if we chose to actually abuse it and not let attackers do anything)

I'm not the one who's against it because I'm not the one who split into 5-6 clans and draining from them, maybe yeah it'll be hard for you to use 5 clans and drain from them no? Because then that 1 player you sent to a clan alone, has to farm and donate dds alone

I'm not trying to be rude or anything towards you, but I'm stating facts and writing my personal opinion & feedbacks here, and I believe you're against it because it will become slightly harder for you to capture so many sites although it would be balanced for a normal war system, that's what I look forward to, I don't look forward to 1 clan fighting against 8 clans and hoping for a miracle

I'm simply writing what I believe we should at least test and see if it would be an improvement to what we currently have which isn't balanced in some ways and everyone knows this by now

 

[DarkMyth.]

Today they had no problem defending several sites against twice as much tanks as the usual (another attacker clan came back to the server). Tanks die fast(<10 s) if there is a slight bit of coordination, out with the tank nerf ideas, brachi is already trash in normal pvp.

The fact that you consider anything lower than 400% "nearly useless" is funny. A defender clan must suffer in some way because of the attacks. Either that it's fame or it's dds.

Yes, I was also surprised of the last phase honestly
You had around 15 tanks draining and decided to take 4 basic sites and 3 excellent which ended up slowing the drain rate

Usually you have around 7 drainers, at least 2 days ago you were 7 attackers and you captured 12 sites in total at 1am phase, now with 15 drainers you hardly did anything close to that, maybe it's not always about the numbers of attackers but also their strategy?

The fact that you consider anything lower than 400% "nearly useless" is funny. A defender clan must suffer in some way because of the attacks. Either that it's fame or it's dds.

Yes and the attackers should also suffer in some way if they want to capture this excellent site and collect what's inside it don't you think?

Mutual situation, clan which is trying to hold sites is investing dds to produce fame, and the clan which wants to steal this fame has to also invest a little and not just have it given



There never was such thing as "defender and attacker side"
We always had a clan which is fighting to hold sites and those who don't want to hold but steal it / or want to take over this clan and both sides used to always invest and fight an actual war for it

 

[istencsaszar]

Yes and the attackers should also suffer in some way if they want to capture this excellent site and collect what's inside it don't you think?

They suffer by default as they get way less fame. They also don't have the ability to rest their manpower, as the same few people have to attack daily. Large alliances can rotate players.

 

[OrionZG]

I think the best way for a clan to get dds passively or constantly without relying on "donors, would be if there was a tax rate on the sales we make in the market through items, maybe 3-6%, that percentage goes directly to the clan and that same percentage can be modified within the clan.

Many mmos use that method.

and thus, can give clans the opportunity to upgrade buildings.

My clan is willing to improve the buildings on my server, but we don't have enough dds, despite having 74 members no one wants to donate xd

 

[Queenie]

I was also wondering about the dds issue as hunting all the time is quite boring and while I still have to unlock some imps and techs, it seems useless to get XP from the quests as i already have max lvl. So why not instead of XP max lvls could get dds? or even lower lvls could get xp and dds like the event quests

 

[Pleiadian]

The fact that you consider anything lower than 400% "nearly useless" is funny. A defender clan must suffer in some way because of the attacks. Either that it's fame or it's dds.

Suffer is quite the strong word here, and they already do in multiple ways.

Defender already invests quite a lot to upgrade a single tower from the base 50% to 400%.

If the defense is successful, then that's a reward well obtained, because first off they invested their dollars for their site to give a high reward and they successfully defended against a hoard of attackers.

If the defense is unsuccessful and they lose their Site, that's both fame gone and dollars invested gone.

Meanwhile, what have the attackers invested in order to obtain the fame?

 

[Pleiadian]

An attacker's dream situation. A defender's worst nightmare.

Attacking players each create their own clans, and take advantage of the high drain points. Attackers would naturally use the dino that favors survivability over fighting, so either Tank class or the Para, due to its dodge effect.

Every attacker will go to the same Site, ideally first, target the clans that have a lot of Sites (because you will have even higher drain points against them) and the Sites that are 400%.

All the attackers go in groups together to the same site, Attacker 1, hits the tower first and drains a small portion of the Site. Then the rest of the attacker joins in the attack.

By the time that the defending clan arrives

1. Attackers would outnumber Defenders, imagine how many players are with high drain points and Tanks, meanwhile, the Defenders have 40 repair points.
   
   
2. By the time the defenders kill the attackers in the circle, the building is already lost.

Keep repeating over and over again, this will eventually break the gameplay. It's a disgusting way of playing because it leaves no room for the defenders to even defend their Site, let alone a glimpse of hope at saving it.

It is basically making a way for the attackers to always take a few buildings when the phase starts. And the defenders will always lose some, no matter what.

 

[DarkMyth.]

An attacker's dream situation. A defender's worst nightmare.

Attacking players each create their own clans, and take advantage of the high drain points. Attackers would naturally use the dino that favors survivability over fighting, so either Tank class or the Para, due to its dodge effect.

Every attacker will go to the same Site, ideally first, target the clans that have a lot of Sites (because you will have even higher drain points against them) and the Sites that are 400%.

All the attackers go in groups together to the same site, Attacker 1, hits the tower first and drains a small portion of the Site. Then the rest of the attacker joins in the attack.

By the time that the defending clan arrives

1. Attackers would outnumber Defenders, imagine how many players are with high drain points and Tanks, meanwhile, the Defenders have 40 repair points.
   
   
2. By the time the defenders kill the attackers in the circle, the building is already lost.

Keep repeating over and over again, this will eventually break the gameplay. It's a disgusting way of playing because it leaves no room for the defenders to even defend their Site, let alone a glimpse of hope at saving it.

It is basically making a way for the attackers to always take a few buildings when the phase starts. And the defenders will always lose some, no matter what.

Since you're getting my point, please don't mind it but I'll share a couple screenshots here from where we were defending yesterday at 8pm phase, and you can see the number of tanks (brachis/paras/ankys) in one site and mostly with yellow feet while 1 guy is actually draining it the fastest

You can count at least 5 clans draining (if not more I am not entirely sure) while the defending clan which has 3-4 sites is trying to defend against such thing, this isn't balance that's just a messed up gameplay now which needs fixing and adjustment otherwise it'll remain broken

And they have slower drain because these screenshots weren't taken in the beginning of the phase so they already had some sites

The first drainer with the highest drain rate will die (if was focused) then 2nd drainer with the highest drain rate will take over the draining and so on until the site is taken and that's 5,600 fame given for literally free

 

[Highway]

What I see on the screens is that there are allso ally clans having the yellow feet and almost no defenders present. Guess in this situation it is normal that defenders will loose such big attack force even when they where not using any tanks.

 

[DarkMyth.]

You can count at least 5 clans draining (if not more I am not entirely sure) while the defending clan which has 3-4 sites is trying to defend against such thing, this isn't balance that's just a messed up gameplay now which needs fixing and adjustment otherwise it'll remain broken

Which brings us back to the same topic which we're trying to open on almost a daily basis, attacking shouldn't be completely free

If these players who were sent to a clan alone to drain with a higher rate were forced to invest something to attack a site then they might reconsider their decisions as they will have to also start farming dds in order to attack, and alone how much can they farm to attack? Meanwhile a clan even with a couple players can farm a bunch of dds in literally 1 hour. Each player is able to farm 100k dds in around 40 minutes +/-

The first drainer with the highest drain rate will die (if was focused) then 2nd drainer with the highest drain rate will take over the draining and so on until the site is taken and that's 5,600 fame given for literally free

And then this fame from a excellent side which is obviously attack to have it given just for free, wouldn't be for literally free but you'll pay something to have it, if you don't capture this site you still have time to come back or make a better strategy, and you have to also time your attacks depending on your rates, not go ahead and attack a site which needs 8 minutes to drain but the phase ends in 5 minutes, that'd be your fault for wasting this dds

 

[DarkMyth.]

What I see on the screens is that there are allso ally clans having the yellow feet and almost no defenders present. Guess in this situation it is normal that defenders will loose such big attack force even when they where not using any tanks.

First screenshot there was a defender and more incoming, second and third screenshots was no defender/ally because the screenshots were taken before anyone arrives there as they were calling backup

A couple defenders against 15 tanks will vanish in a matter of seconds and by the time they come back to their site it's already a goner and both dds & fame are lost

 

[Domino]

Since you're getting my point, please don't mind it but I'll share a couple screenshots here from where we were defending yesterday at 8pm phase, and you can see the number of tanks (brachis/paras/ankys) in one site and mostly with yellow feet while 1 guy is actually draining it the fastest

You can count at least 5 clans draining (if not more I am not entirely sure) while the defending clan which has 3-4 sites is trying to defend against such thing, this isn't balance that's just a messed up gameplay now which needs fixing and adjustment otherwise it'll remain broken

And they have slower drain because these screenshots weren't taken in the beginning of the phase so they already had some sites

The first drainer with the highest drain rate will die (if was focused) then 2nd drainer with the highest drain rate will take over the draining and so on until the site is taken and that's 5,600 fame given for literally free

Isn't beloved and hated in the alliance on EU1?

 

[DarkMyth.]

Isn't beloved and hated in the alliance on EU1?

 

[Hardwell]

Actually a meme server now hahahah

 

[Hardwell]

@Highway any sneek peak for weekend ptr this is super duper most important fix and changes to EG 3 forum feedback reaction is needed....

 

[Domino]

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Lol, that happened to me as well. Finding a new username for another server is hard, but copying a clan name is possible... I don't get it anymore...

 

[Highway]

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ohh my... But still not enough defenders present to go against that big attack force

@Highway any sneek peak for weekend ptr this is super duper most important fix and changes to EG 3 forum feedback reaction is needed....

We are on it and post it here as soon as it is ready

 

[DarkMyth.]

ohh my... But still not enough defenders present to go against that big attack force

Logically, if the same clans didn't split into 3 they'd double the amount of attackers, no? But who would ask for a 3 minutes drain speed (something you can't save your site from)

You can't force split the main big clans into 3 and then wonder why there's no enough defenders to go against a big attack force, but we've been living with it now and kinda getting used to it although we hate being split from our clan mates but we do what we gotta do lol

Meanwhile attackers can send each player to a different clan and nothing would change for them, they have the buff anyways and they will drain whether they were 1 clan or 10 clans, same thing just more sites into many different clans

You made big clans split on purpose of making it easier for attackers, then you added the buff and you kept the really high drain rate against the really low repair rate, that’s the outcome

 

[Domino]

ohh my... But still not enough defenders present to go against that big attack force

I don't think that is @DarkMyth. point. Everyone is copying other clan names. Just replace a l with an uppercase i or place a whitespace on the end of the name.

 

[Hardwell]

Ermmm helping alliance out again from KOS pov... For dynamic drain rate...is it possible for a mechanic to have wear and tear on the dynamic drain rate... Like clothing and you need to pay DD to renew your dynamic drain power.

This can help distinguish fake attacker then split to "decoy" 'clan and real attacking clan

 

[Pleiadian]

Ermmm helping alliance out again from KOS pov

I don't think this can be stopped. Both the defender alliance and the attacker alliance will help their respective sides. Whatever solution you implement, they will still come at it.

The adrenaline buff gives low damage to the third party, but that didn't stop them from interfering.

 

[- Leyenda -]

With the new Update, do no skills work while the opponent has the Adrenaline skill active?