#14 Endgame Part 3 (Sites Gameplay)

[Pleiadian]

A big amount of fame that can be stolen by the attacker as a big reward for the sucessfull attack.

Alright, I didn't really get the point of this idea, since the way it is presented, there are more drawbacks than advantages.

And on my end, I didn't really like that because it's limiting the hours of gameplay, and restricting.

But this first line is very very convincing for players to adopt the new concept. At the moment, an attacker is fighting 24/7 with minimal fame taken when they finish their attack.

(You should put more emphasis on that, it's a good selling point)

Your proposed solutions partly solve that for the attacker, but the fact that there will be only 1 window of the takeover, means that it is still impossible for an attacker to gain much fame. Because Defender would outnumber attackers every 24 hour, to the point that attacker gives up very easily.

Here's the simple solution presented by @OrionZG

4 moments of peace and 4 moments of attack every 3 hours.

Having multiple attack windows is infinitely better than 1 attack window. It is not that restricting and as a player I actually love it. It will be like a burst of open attacks on every building in the game, the motivating factor being, the big amount of fame awaiting the ones who take the tower.


Here's the advantage if we go with this idea.

1. Huge amounts of rewards are being generated every 3 hours, so players will be more motivated to drain a tower.
2. The player activity would remain more or less the same since there's a constant fight going on and it's not as limiting or restrictive.
3. An attacker will keep attacking until the alliance (defender) is tired of defending. Their role would switch due to constant attacks, and the alliance would eventually break and become the new attackers. This will create an endless loop of new attackers and defenders every 3 hours.

There should be more than 2 takeover windows of 4 hours in 24 hours. The more takeover window, the less restrictive the gameplay.

I think that's a good middle ground between the people who find the 1-hour takeover phase too limiting and restricting and the people who say that 24 hours war is too long and less rewarding.

 

[Hardwell]

This should mitigated by the yield upgrades that are expensive for a clan which will be lost when the building changes the owner. (Current yield is only visible to the owner)



In addition to the 4 hour pvp combat per day: What if the gold claims are always owned by the Dinoville and can be raided by any player without a clan? Gold rocks are spawned in bulk every hour around the claims and players can attack them to make them drop fame items for everyone to pick up. No need to be in a clan and the fame items will directly go to the player inventory on pickup? Would something like that fill the gap to have something to do while waiting/preparing for the 4 hour period to come up? (Note: This is not directly the idea we have planned for 3.1)


Apart from that it would also be interessting to know why you think it is to easy for defenders to hold the buildings? Is it the rescue timers? How the gates can be used during attacks? Give us some more details/strategies that we can evaulate against the design.

That's actually a great idea so now there will be 2 gameplay 1 representing your own clan and another gameplay is for individual purpose.

 

[TheDinoWarrior]

Alright, I didn't really get the point of this idea, since the way it is presented, there are more drawbacks than advantages.

And on my end, I didn't really like that because it's limiting the hours of gameplay, and restricting.

But this first line is very very convincing for players to adopt the new concept. At the moment, an attacker is fighting 24/7 with minimal fame taken when they finish their attack.

(You should put more emphasis on that, it's a good selling point)

Your proposed solutions partly solve that for the attacker, but the fact that there will be only 1 window of the takeover, means that it is still impossible for an attacker to gain much fame. Because Defender would outnumber attackers every 24 hour, to the point that attacker gives up very easily.

Here's the simple solution presented by @OrionZG



Having multiple attack windows is infinitely better than 1 attack window. It is not that restricting and as a player I actually love it. It will be like a burst of open attacks on every building in the game, the motivating factor being, the big amount of fame awaiting the ones who take the tower.


Here's the advantage if we go with this idea.

1. Huge amounts of rewards are being generated every 3 hours, so players will be more motivated to drain a tower.
2. The player activity would remain more or less the same since there's a constant fight going on and it's not as limiting or restrictive.
3. An attacker will keep attacking until the alliance (defender) is tired of defending. Their role would switch due to constant attacks, and the alliance would eventually break and become the new attackers. This will create an endless loop of new attackers and defenders every 3 hours.

There should be more than 2 takeover windows of 4 hours in 24 hours. The more takeover window, the less restrictive the gameplay.

I think that's a good middle ground between the people who find the 1-hour takeover phase too limiting and restricting and the people who say that 24 hours war is too long and less rewarding.

I like this idea

 

[Highway]

An attacker will keep attacking until the alliance (defender) is tired of defending. Their role would switch due to constant attacks, and the alliance would eventually break and become the new attackers.

Yes that is exactly what he hope it will played out. That there is a constant switch between defender and atracker that is fun for both sides. Providing direct rewards at the end of the combat cycle.

Your proposed solutions partly solve that for the attacker, but the fact that there will be only 1 window of the takeover, means that it is still impossible for an attacker to gain much fame. Because Defender would outnumber attackers every 24 hour, to the point that attacker gives up very easily.

Multiple transfer and producion phases like @OrionZG has proposed could be an alternative but it also has its drawbacks.

Adapted phase timing:
0:00-6:00 production phase (6-hour)
6:00-8:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
8:00-14:00 production phase (6-hour)
14:00-16:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
16:00-22:00 production phase (6-hour)
22:00-24:00 transfer phase (2-hour)

Drawbacks:

• Less rewards for the attacker (6 hour item production instead of 20 hours)
• Yield upgrades for the building production are harder to protect 3 times a day and the investment might not be worth it anymore
• Loss of the daily event character feeling as it is split into 3
• Dont take place at the prime time where most people are online and available to play

 

[Keshiro]

When we will be able to test it on PTR server?

 

[Hardwell]

That's actually a great idea so now there will be 2 gameplay 1 representing your own clan and another gameplay is for individual purpose.

The Conquest Open Team battle in Pirate G could also be implemented in Ds tok for individual purpose make it 5 vs 5 since out of the 4hr phase no gates are red the team can spawn anywhere an strategies. First to 20 kill win.
Winning team get rewarded
1st 50k dd 1k vio
2nd 40k dd 800 vio
3rd 30k dd 600 vio
4th 20k dd 400 vio
5th 10k dd 200 vio

High level always complain hard to farm dd this maybe good way to earn dd other than killing smili.

 

[slejd2001]

Gold rocks are spawned in bulk every hour around the claims and players can attack them to make them drop fame items for everyone to pick up. No need to be in a clan and the fame items will directly go to the player inventory on pickup? Would something like that fill the gap to have something to do while waiting/preparing for the 4 hour period to come up?

Do it. I think it would feel the gap and also would be more entertaining since fame would be gained not only while fighting for sites, but also fighting for those items. Like I already see going with my clan and killing enemies and taking away from them those fame items . Although I think claims still should be available to take over same as gates.

Adapted phase timing:
0:00-6:00 production phase (6-hour)
6:00-8:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
8:00-14:00 production phase (6-hour)
14:00-16:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
16:00-22:00 production phase (6-hour)
22:00-24:00 transfer phase (2-hour)

I think it is better. Some element of surprise stays, dominating clans would have to spend more resources to maintain those sites in order to get more fame, more available windows for the attackers to attack and so create some strategies

 

[Pleiadian]

If we compare it to when we have only 1 transfer phase, then of course— more drawbacks.

But if you compare it to the current gameplay on the live server, this proposed idea with multiple transfer phases has more benefits to attackers.

Less rewards for the attacker (6 hour item production instead of 24 hours)

In the proposed scenario, attackers are a winner and they actually receive more fame in their 2-hour attack in contrast to what we have on live servers. Fighting for 2 hours for a peanut amount of fame.

If we move from what is currently on live servers to your draft (with multiple transfer phases), that's a really really good move.

Yield upgrades for the building production are harder to protect 3 times a day and the investment might not be worth it anymore

Well, maybe the yield mechanic could be modified to adopt multiple transfer phases.

Because for me, the core topic here is the gameplay, the yield items are rather subjective and can be balanced later to use, after the core gameplay has been finalized.

Dont take place at the prime time where most people are online and available to play

To easily solve that, we could be flexible with the timing, and make sure that during peak time, there are always actions.

All in all, I do not think that these are severe drawbacks, and I think they can be easily mitigated.

Note: 2-hour transfer window, is short IMO.

 

[vansh]

@Highway Please Please Please Please Please can you add a PvP kill counter that appears after the transfer phase is over? Like a leader board of who killed the most enemy during the transfer phase.

 

[vansh]

Yes that is exactly what he hope it will played out. That there is a constant switch between defender and atracker that is fun for both sides. Providing direct rewards at the end of the combat cycle.



Multiple transfer and producion phases like @OrionZG has proposed could be an alternative but it also has its drawbacks.

Adapted phase timing:
0:00-6:00 production phase (6-hour)
6:00-8:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
8:00-14:00 production phase (6-hour)
14:00-16:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
16:00-22:00 production phase (6-hour)
22:00-24:00 transfer phase (2-hour)

Drawbacks:

• Less rewards for the attacker (6 hour item production instead of 24 hours)
• Yield upgrades for the building production are harder to protect 3 times a day and the investment might not be worth it anymore
• Loss of the daily event character feeling as it is split into 3
• Dont take place at the prime time where most people are online and available to play

To me having many transfer phase just looks like it will tire the defenders out. Even though they are just a group of Nabs teaming up for advantage and ez win they are still players with their own strategy. While we attackers will get lets say 33% or less of the daily map fame, the bigger clan will still get 66% or more. Which is what we already have right now in servers with active war.
On the other hand, having just one transfer phase can help attackers close the fame gap to a 50-50 possibly. Another reason why i think having many transfer phase is bad is that if the attacker get a taste of reward they will already be motivated to attack each day. Because I can guarantee you that right now in most servers the attackers simply gave up and do not even try to attack at all. If they get a taste of reward with the daily event type attack, it will motivated them to play while also not encouraging the defenders to quit.
To note that some players of different timezone also plays in multiple servers so what if they are invading a server. They are still players and targeting them directly with multiple transfer phase is bad. I feel that just having to fight 4 hours per servers that they are in is already a lot. Not imagine having to fight 3 times per server and you are in 4-5 servers. That is why i see you are trying to make fame more accessible through not only pvp events but also pve events which is very good. You just have to keep up with making new content after the basic mechanic is setup.

 

[TheDinoWarrior]

To me having many transfer phase just looks like it will tire the defenders out. Even though they are just a group of Nabs teaming up for advantage and ez win they are still players with their own strategy. While we attackers will get lets say 33% or less of the daily map fame, the bigger clan will still get 66% or more. Which is what we already have right now in servers with active war.
On the other hand, having just one transfer phase can help attackers close the fame gap to a 50-50 possibly. Another reason why i think having many transfer phase is bad is that if the attacker get a taste of reward they will already be motivated to attack each day. Because I can guarantee you that right now in most servers the attackers simply gave up and do not even try to attack at all. If they get a taste of reward with the daily event type attack, it will motivated them to play while also not encouraging the defenders to quit.
To note that some players of different timezone also plays in multiple servers so what if they are invading a server. They are still players and targeting them directly with multiple transfer phase is bad. I feel that just having to fight 4 hours per servers that they are in is already a lot. Not imagine having to fight 3 times per server and you are in 4-5 servers. That is why i see you are trying to make fame more accessible through not only pvp events but also pve events which is very good. You just have to keep up with making new content after the basic mechanic is setup.

Agreed even though we may get less fame items with so many transfer phases, the point is to make the alliances defending tiresome and players who do wars on many servers will find it difficult to cope with all these transfer windows and ultimately it will give attackers on those particular server an opportunity to steal fame. (Just bit annoying cuz of the small reward part but I think it will play out well xd)

 

[Sunshine..]

Yes that is exactly what he hope it will played out. That there is a constant switch between defender and atracker that is fun for both sides. Providing direct rewards at the end of the combat cycle.



Multiple transfer and producion phases like @OrionZG has proposed could be an alternative but it also has its drawbacks.

Adapted phase timing:
0:00-6:00 production phase (6-hour)
6:00-8:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
8:00-14:00 production phase (6-hour)
14:00-16:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
16:00-22:00 production phase (6-hour)
22:00-24:00 transfer phase (2-hour)

Drawbacks:

• Less rewards for the attacker (6 hour item production instead of 24 hours)
• Yield upgrades for the building production are harder to protect 3 times a day and the investment might not be worth it anymore
• Loss of the daily event character feeling as it is split into 3
• Dont take place at the prime time where most people are online and available to play

it better be 4 hours of attack and 4 hours of production.
the fun of the game is PvP, the more action the better.
and the less rest for the oppressive alliance, the easier they fall.

 

[vansh]

Agreed even though we may get less fame items with so many transfer phases, the point is to make the alliances defending tiresome and players who do wars on many servers will find it difficult to cope with all these transfer windows and ultimately it will give attackers on those particular server an opportunity to steal fame. (Just bit annoying cuz of the small reward part but I think it will play out well xd)

I too agree that attackers need more advantage but there has to be a balance somewhere, I personally think that 3 transfer phase would be too many. 2 transfer phase could be possible. I would love to have 1-2 transfer phase on weekdays and 3 on weekends or something like 1 transfer phase on monday, tuesday, 2 transfer phase thursday, friday. 3 on wednesday, saturday and sunday. Up for discussion. Although I think this is too much work to code and it won't mesh up properly.

 

[Hardwell]

I too agree that attackers need more advantage but there has to be a balance somewhere, I personally think that 3 transfer phase would be too many. 2 transfer phase could be possible. I would love to have 1-2 transfer phase on weekdays and 3 on weekends or something like 1 transfer phase on monday, tuesday, 2 transfer phase thursday, friday. 3 on wednesday, saturday and sunday. Up for discussion.

3 transfer phase is good enough now the defenders gotta anticipate which transfer phase they gotta put the most effort at.

Attackers can also make an unpredicted attack within this 3 transfer phase. Maybe attacker go half effort on first transfer phase and 2nd transfer phase they don't attack at all.

3 transfer phase will definitely help attackers a lot with the unpredicted attack.

 

[vansh]

3 transfer phase is good enough now the defenders gotta anticipate which transfer phase they gotta put the most effort at.

Attackers can also make an unpredicted attack within this 3 transfer phase. Maybe attacker go half effort on first transfer phase and 2nd transfer phase they don't attack at all.

3 transfer phase will definitely help attackers a lot with the unpredicted attack.

Right I forgot this perspective. I had in mind that people would just full on attack every transfer phase since that what we all typically do in war time, 12-40 hours war. I limited myself to only thinking about big wars and not small attacks.

 

[Hardwell]

Right I forgot this perspective. I had in mind that people would just full on attack every transfer phase since that what we all typically do in war time, 12-40 hours war. I limited myself to only thinking about big wars and not small attacks.

Yee now rebel alliance can alter between small raids to full on attack depending on how they strategize

 

[slejd2001]

2-hour transfer window, is short IMO.

I think its good enough, because longer transfer phases, the shorter fame generation phase. Maybe 3h of transfer phase would be max suitable.

 

[slejd2001]

Do it. I think it would feel the gap and also would be more entertaining since fame would be gained not only while fighting for sites, but also fighting for those items. Like I already see going with my clan and killing enemies and taking away from them those fame items

I asked my clanmates and they also like that idea

 

[Pleiadian]

Maybe 3h of transfer phase would be max suitable.

 

[TheDinoWarrior]

I asked my clanmates and they also like that idea

Ur clan is part of alliance or? >.> (Jk xd)

 

[Highway]

Seems that overall the design concept is well received apart from the details about the amount of transfer phases and the duration of it. Great
We will plan the phase to be flexible so that we can start with a setting and adjust the timings depending how it works once it is tested/live.

 

[vansh]

Seems that overall the design concept is well received apart from the details about the amount of transfer phases and the duration of it. Great
We will plan the phase to be flexible so that we can start with a setting and adjust the timings depending how it works once it is tested/live.

I think a kill leader board would help clan leaders see how much a player contributed in term of PvP since this update encourages solo plays.

 

[OrionZG]

I think a kill leader board would help clan leaders see how much a player contributed in term of PvP since this update encourages solo plays.

Or they could add pvp points, and those pvp points will show up on the sheriff's monument and on our profile near the achievement points and the sheriff's position.

 

[OrionZG]

Seems that overall the design concept is well received apart from the details about the amount of transfer phases and the duration of it. Great
We will plan the phase to be flexible so that we can start with a setting and adjust the timings depending how it works once it is tested/live.

Okay but consider multiple transfer phases, a minimum of 3 is better than 1

 

[OrionZG]

I think its good enough, because longer transfer phases, the shorter fame generation phase. Maybe 3h of transfer phase would be max suitable.

Adapted phase timing:
0:00-6:00 production phase (6-hour)
6:00-8:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
8:00-14:00 production phase (6-hour)
14:00-16:00 transfer phase (2-hour)
16:00-22:00 production phase (6-hour)
22:00-24:00 transfer phase (2-hour)

So 5 hours production phase and 3 hours transfer phase... (?).

 

[slejd2001]

So 5 hours production phase and 3 hours transfer phase... (?).

For me 2h seem to be fine, but 3h I think is max what I would be fine with, although still should be tested

 

[Hardwell]

Devs, will you guys be looking for other methods of getting DD instead of just smilidon farming?

 

[TheDinoWarrior]

It would also be nice if attackers could respawn from red gates too while defenders have to use other gates if they die. it will bring some advantage for attackers and make it more worthwhile to attack the map.
(P.s there was an update in PTR in the past where group combat was not allowed and only 1v1 was a possibility, maybe it could help the attackers during draining too)

 

[XAragornX]

[/QUOTE]

It would also be nice if attackers could respawn from red gates too while defenders have to use other gates if they die. it will bring some advantage for attackers and make it more worthwhile to attack the map.
(P.s there was an update in PTR in the past where group combat was not allowed and only 1v1 was a possibility, maybe it could help the attackers during draining too)

Its team work game it would be useless for let attackers do 1 v 1 into combat for camps. Imagine on e1 or Am svs are 30+ Players or more even it wouldnt have sense for let attackers do 1 v 1 for retake camp.

 

[TheDinoWarrior]

Relax @XAragornX .I used the word 'maybe' there. This EU4 ally omg they keeping an eye on everything I say here You sure know what it feels to PvP me on solo from experience and understand the miserable outcome along with players from ally who challenged me. You never reply here except that's why you came to quote my message due to fears of losing gates from duels on a strict 1v1 bounded mode with the PvP master mhmmm?