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#10 Dinosaur & Weapon Balance

domadino

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Hi everybody,

I want to talk about the points @JustaRavenPL brought to the forum discussion

Speaking as someone who started playing DS in 2013 and does not represent all the community (independent opinion):

1. Talking about how PG "is in a worse situation" on updates doesn't make DS better off.

At this point, I say that I fully agree with the new update schedule (one game at a time), it really makes a difference in the quality of the new content

2. You said that the long period between updates and bug fixes in PG cost the loss of players, and the point is that the same is happening with DS now.

What the three communities (DS, PG and SL) need to keep in mind are the challenges related to being a small team working on 3 games (this has already been made clear here at DevShacks). At this point I understand that we all need understanding when dealing with updates and keeping anxiety under control.

3. What is leaving the community upset is that we are waiting for information about how things are going and for example we are notified only 3 months after the coder left the team (they were probably waiting for another one before announcing), we want to know if there is something else coming up with the rebalancing, previsions about time for release and etc, we want that contact.

So you come here basically to tell us that we have to calm down because the PG community did the same, and the reason why is some people talk about PG here in the topic, and there is something I want to talk about it:

You said that the PG community is being sympathetic to the team because they understand their limitations, so I ask: Isn't the DS community also? We cannot use one or two comments to say that "the community is acting in a way that it shouldn't", because it is certainly wrong for me to use the following comment and say that it represents the entire PG community:

pgf1.png

(by the way, this seems to me like someone crying about DS updates, anyway, it still doesn't represent your community as a whole)

Here on the forum people speak independently, and not representing the entire community, so I understand your request for patience and the motivations behind it, and I just have to add that we cannot stop making claims because “the PG community already waited too long”.

I appreciate you taking time to convey your vision as a member of another Splistcreen gaming community.

I just have to point out that our claims are valid, for example with the extra content you said DS has: Some are really forgotten because they are disadvantaged in the game (I challenge you to find players using claw implant in the DS) and that is exactly why rebalancing is coming, so I hope the update will take the necessary time to significantly improve game mechanics, but we still want news here on the forum.

#StaySafe and thanks for reading ^^. #NoShade
 

JustaRavenPL

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Ok. It's time for me to answer at everything what You say. Because no, I don't miss the point here ;)

devs shouldn't favor one game over the other. ever. you make it sound like since pirate galaxy was neglected, its ok for the devs to neglect dinostorm. its not.
(...)
or does it really not bother you to have one game prioritized over others, even though by your admission it happened to pirate galaxy several years ago? and surely if you're also unhappy with what the devs have done, you would agree that they need to listen to their players more?
1. Developers already said that they have small team and they can't hire anymore people to their company. So they work in small amount of people on 3 games simultaneously.
2. At least in Pirate Galaxy, Developers have started to listen to players, for example in case of Colossus or Graviton changes. And as far as I read, they try as much as they can to make updates in Dino Storm connected to the players wishes.
3. I'm not 100% happy about that, what Devs do, but I can understand them, since I'm connected to IT myself in work and I know how it looks like from different side as well ;)

look at mmos like world of warcraft, guild wars, final fantasy 14. the devs for those games provide constant community updates, even if there isn't necessarily an update to the game itself.
4. Why do You compare games that have a lot more people that are obligated to run and administer the game and create new patches for them, with games that have just really few people to do any stuff at all? I don't really get it. Ah.. And those games You mentioned were in different business model at least on the past, than Dino Storm or Pirate Galaxy are.

The devs told us about this balance update in april, if you'll check the first post. the main coder left in march. there is NO MENTION of the main coder leaving in the first post.
5. The thing that they didn't tell you that their coder has changed is pretty bad. Still I think they told us that because we have really urgent updates incoming that are already delayed several months. I think that the upcoming balance update for Dino Storm, as well as Conquest Renewal for Pirate Galaxy will come in same time, that's why it's that delayed. Both sides will be happy on the end, as I said above.

6. @domadino I pretty like your point of view. That's for sure true, that if You don't get any news basically from the Devs, then yeah, it would be quite nice to get atleast portion of informations.

And yes, I wrote the post just to calm down people, because I believe, Devs really work hard. Sometimes things just happen like the coder leaving or coronavirus, that they may be delayed somehow. Content have to be tested as well before the real server implementation.

And about that guy from PG forum. I see him first time now :ROFLMAO:
 
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-Frigg-

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Ok. It's time for me to answer at everything what You say. Because no, I don't miss the point here ;)


1. Developers already said that they have small team and they can't hire anymore people to their company. So they work in small amount of people on 3 games simultaneously.
right, and i understand that. HOWEVER, they still have an obligation to keep us in the loop by making posts letting us know whats going on and what we can expect in terms of a timeline. i have no problem with the fact they need to focus on one big update at a time. i understand that. the problem is the communication. they don't acknowledge when we point out that things are big problems and they leave us without an update for months on end. big team or not, thats not right.

2. At least in Pirate Galaxy, Developers have started to listen to players, for example in case of Colossus or Graviton changes. And as far as I read, they try as much as they can to make updates in Dino Storm connected to the players wishes.
i've read SO MANY POSTS on this forum from people who have had fantastic ideas that would really make things better in the game, but none of the posts have been implemented and for a large number of them aren't even acknowledged, which goes back to my first point. communication. and we had the poll about the damage being limited when fighting lower level players where the poll wanted the limiter removed, but nothing ever came of that except for an update that i didn't even notice because level 50s kill 55s just as easily as before.

3. I'm not 100% happy about that, what Devs do, but I can understand them, since I'm connected to IT myself in work and I know how it looks like from different side as well ;)
whats the point of lavishing praise on devs that don't listen to what their players want then? IT work or not, they've done updates that were incredibly unpopular and which killed the game even further (gun update anyone?).

4. Why do You compare games that have a lot more people that are obligated to run and administer the game and create new patches for them, with games that have just really few people to do any stuff at all? I don't really get it.
because my point is that devs keep their players updated, no matter the game. ok, forget the bigger mmos for a moment. go look at games on steam. even games with small dev teams put out updates AND keep their players updated, whether through twitter or facebook or forums or some other option. stardew valley is the best example of this. there is no excuse, regardless of the team size, for leaving your playerbase in the dark about updates. i mean, orrire's title is community manager. thats general someone who posts updates and talks to the community to keep him in the loop, though i have yet to really see that happen.


5. The thing that they didn't tell you that their coder has changed is pretty bad. Still I think they told us that because we have really urgent updates incoming that are already delayed several months. I think that the upcoming balance update for Dino Storm, as well as Conquest Renewal for Pirate Galaxy will come in same time, that's why it's that delayed. Both sides will be happy on the end, as I said above.
i understand that you have updates coming and thats probably part of it, but lets be real here. how long would it take highway or one of the gms to make a post just saying "hey guys, our main coder left and we're working on a pirate galaxy update, so the balance update for dinostorm is being delayed and we'll let you know when we have more information and a better timeline for the release."? it took me less than 30 seconds to write that sentence.

so yes. you did miss my point entirely. while the lack of updates is an issue, it would be far less of an issue if there was communication with the players from the dev team to let us know whats going on and what we can expect.
 

JustaRavenPL

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I have already agreed to the thing, that, if Developers don't give you any informations about updates, at least once a month or somehow around this time, then it's for sure their fault. And it's not their "obligation". It's that, what will make community happy and stop leaving the games they are running. They never "promised" to give informations all the time.

For ETA for our Conquest Renewal Update, they already adding that they don't promise anything in case of that, so after that Highway could post some ETA that may be possible. But it wasn't. I think same claim was around "Balancing Update" on Dino Storm.

i've read SO MANY POSTS on this forum from people who have had fantastic ideas that would really make things better in the game, but none of the posts have been implemented and for a large number of them aren't even acknowledged, which goes back to my first point. communication. and we had the poll about the damage being limited when fighting lower level players where the poll wanted the limiter removed, but nothing ever came of that except for an update that i didn't even notice because level 50s kill 55s just as easily as before.
Here, on PG, we have the same. So I have started the initiative to make YouTube series from that. Guess what, Developers are mostly listening to growing PG community :) Finally, growing, after few big years of totally zero new updates.

whats the point of lavishing praise on devs that don't listen to what their players want then? IT work or not, they've done updates that were incredibly unpopular and which killed the game even further (gun update anyone?).
And I didn't really praise the Devs so hard on any of my post here or even on Pirate Galaxy forum. I just post to tell You for a little calm down and lower some toxic. Devs will finalize the update soon ;) If you play Dino Storm for long time, as me in Pirate Galaxy, then you should know, that the time, when Events are running (after Devshacks), is the time that Developers are giving themselves to finalize the future updates and to "try to" exterminate rest of bugs happening on the route.

"hey guys, our main coder left and we're working on a pirate galaxy update, so the balance update for dinostorm is being delayed and we'll let you know when we have more information and a better timeline for the release."
*Already feels breath of angry community after that xD*
As I said above, yes, I agree that communication is a key here ;) "I have already agreed to the thing, that, if Developers don't give you any informations about updates, at least once a month or somehow around this time, then it's for sure their fault. "
 

-Frigg-

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I have already agreed to the thing, that, if Developers don't give you any informations about updates, at least once a month or somehow around this time, then it's for sure their fault. And it's not their "obligation". It's that, what will make community happy and stop leaving the games they are running. They never "promised" to give informations all the time.
it is their obligation though. when you create an ever-updating mmo, and especially when you're making money off that mmo as they are with ds with all the people that buy gold, they are obligated to keep the community updated about whats going on. otherwise, why do they deserve our money and patience?

Here, on PG, we have the same. So I have started the initiative to make YouTube series from that. Guess what, Developers are mostly listening to growing PG community :) Finally, growing, after few big years of totally zero new updates.


And I didn't really praise the Devs so hard on any of my post here or even on Pirate Galaxy forum. I just post to tell You for a little calm down and lower some toxic. Devs will finalize the update soon ;) If you play Dino Storm for long time, as me in Pirate Galaxy, then you should know, that the time, when Events are running (after Devshacks), is the time that Developers are giving themselves to finalize the future updates and to "try to" exterminate rest of bugs happening on the route.
and thats why i post here, to make my voice heard and to tell the devs what dinostorm needs and what the players want. just because i do it in the forums instead of in a youtube video doesn't mean i'm being "toxic." its not toxic to expect some kind of communication and then to get upset when the devs don't even mention anything in regards to the main coder leaving or updates about our big update.


*Already feels breath of angry community after that xD*
As I said above, yes, I agree that communication is a key here ;) "I have already agreed to the thing, that, if Developers don't give you any informations about updates, at least once a month or somehow around this time, then it's for sure their fault. "
we wouldn't be happy, sure, but its better than just letting us think that the update is in progress for three months and that theres no issues because of a coder leaving. i keep saying that my issue is with the lack of communication and you keep arguing that why 1) aren't entitled to communication but also 2) its the devs fault they aren't communicating so.... i don't even know what you're trying to do here.
 

Highway

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@-Frigg- I know that you care about the game otherwise you would just leave. But its more complicated than you are picturing it. We are just 6 people at splitscreen studios keeping everthing running. I recommend read devshack https://forum.dinostorm.com/threads/9-developer-team-plans-for-dino-storm.17959/ to get a better picture what that involves. So we need to shift our attention to one game to another and right now we have a set of plans for DS where the balacing is the first of it.

When we have announced the balaning devshack we initially thought this can be done by the gamedesigner and the testers while not needing a lot of coding effort to be done for it. But sadly it was not the case as we progressed into it as the balancing needed to simulate the combat which delayed the whole thing.

So I hope you can understand it a bit more and are getting into a better mood as this harsh critic is really not energizing our dev team ;)
 

JustaRavenPL

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@-Frigg- I know that you care about the game otherwise you would just leave. But its more complicated than you are picturing it. We are just 6 people at splitscreen studios keeping everthing running. I recommend read devshack https://forum.dinostorm.com/threads/9-developer-team-plans-for-dino-storm.17959/ to get a better picture what that involves. So we need to shift our attention to one game to another and right now we have a set of plans for DS where the balacing is the first of it.

When we have announced the balaning devshack we initially thought this can be done by the gamedesigner and the testers while not needing a lot of coding effort to be done for it. But sadly it was not the case as we progressed into it as the balancing needed to simulate the combat which delayed the whole thing.

So I hope you can understand it a bit more and are getting into a better mood as this harsh critic is really not energizing our dev team ;)
And thats what I basically wanted to say and thats what I do here as well. Additionally, I was just trying to tell that PG is not as much developed as DS and we still understand it. Thats all :)
 

-Frigg-

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and i understand that. i don't know why you're focusing JUST on the updates part. i KNOW that pirate galaxy has updates coming and i KNOW that the dinostorm ones are in the works. my point is we. need. communication. thats what my whole problem is! we don't know whats happening or that people have left or what the future of dinostorm is. i'm just saying. is it really so hard to take 10 minutes out of the day to keep people updated on whats going on?
 

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We always try to keep the community in the loop on what is going on during development. But sometimes its not easy when we just have negative things to bring on the table before they are fully evaluated on how to address them. The balancing thing really get our heads to spin and we where quite frustrated that it takes so long, and then we even need an extra simulation programmed :|. Dino Storm is has fundamental issues that need to be adressed before we can pick up additional ideas presented by the community.

Now its time for me to :sleep:
 

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Its been a hot minute since I've decided to chime in, but here we go:

The community has a problem with lack of information flow between the Devs and the Community. The obvious solution is to use your resources. Orrie has a fancy title of Community Manager, in most businesses, Community Managers are meant to keep the line of communication between the community and the staff, why are we not having this resource be used? I understand that the negativity of some of the community is discouraging, but its just like being in any part of the public eye. You take the good and the bad. There will always be people who aren't happy or satisfied, but if you can limit that with tools you already have at your disposal, why wouldn't you want to?

We understand balancing, and coding in general takes a long time but in the mean time, why are the player's voices not being heard? When CCV and MM were being developed we got Developmental screen shots, mob screen shots, etc. With this, obviously is not the same, but a "Hey, we were working on x today, it went great/terrible". Doesn't even have to be the Devs themselves, like I said, use the team you've built to your advantage.

The other problem is, when you do ask for our opinions on things, I.E, the damage limiter, you ignore the overwhelming response from the community and implement how you feel would better serve the game, which yeah in some cases is a good idea, but in the case of things like my example, I feel like the player base is the better source to listen to. We are in game daily and we see what issues it causes, including the fact that the bug fix did not help, in fact, it even has seemed to make things worse. I've seen 55's take enormous amounts of damage from 45-50's.

In conclusion, I feel like the dev team forgets that we appreciate your hard work, but sometimes its hard for the community to see that there is hard work at play when you're not using the tools at your disposal to your full advantage. The community cannot see what is going on behind the scenes or the toll it takes to code, it would be helpful to show us instead of telling us.
 

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In conclusion, I feel like the dev team forgets that we appreciate your hard work, but sometimes its hard for the community to see that there is hard work at play when you're not using the tools at your disposal to your full advantage. The community cannot see what is going on behind the scenes or the toll it takes to code, it would be helpful to show us instead of telling us.
i'd just like to say that this EXACTLY is what i mean. thanks for putting it so well sandy.
 

Z0cky94

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You have developed three games and there are only 6 people. Dino Storm, Pirate Galaxy and Steel Legions. Pirate Galaxy is actually my primary game from you, but I admire how you try to keep everything going with only 6 people.

That's a lot of work. Have you thought about hiring more people? This could be very helpful for the future of your games, although it might be more work at first, since you have to train the new workers.

I hope you'll be able to continue providing Pirate Galaxy and Dino Storm with regular updates. Both games are very interesting.
 

Gonzaabel

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Hi! I also come from the PG community (sorry for this small 'PG invasion' on DS Forum and the off-topic :sweatgrinning:) but I have readed all the previous messages of this thread and I cannot resist to enter to comment here some things.

Developers already said that they have small team and they can't hire anymore people to their company. So they work in small amount of people on 3 games simultaneously.
I haven't readed that they can't hire more people. But is a thing that I wonder why they can't. And maybe is here the main cause:

As we can read throw their own page, they have for their games a framework made by themselfs. Maybe that is one of the reasons why they had awards in the past with their games. And the developers need to learn this framework together with the rest of the game mechanics to get deep on the game development.
This take time and you can't hire people that already knows how it works.
The new dev is a example. He enter to work on May and for now he need some time more to start. Like @Highway commented before:

In the beginning of the last month we had a replacement in the dev team and our new coder @Gruni still needs to get up to speed about the codebase and how the game mechanics work.
I have near of 4 years of work in a company with web-development languages/libraries/frameworks and in the beginning I started at the same situation, having to learn a lot about how the main framework works (and how is the DB relationship between the tables) before get into code, and I am talking about things less complex than game development for sure.
Also I think Highway have said in the past on PG Forum something like if they hire more people, the newest devs will need help from the rest of the team to get they up to work. So... maybe this is the main reason about why they dont hire people. And the second reason and that can be more decisive, lack of money to pay salarys.

I am sure that Highway would answer better than me on this topic if he want to do it. Because I not know his company and I have writed this according my point of view about what happens inside but I am not sure if it is 100% as I have commented here.

I'm not 100% happy about that, what Devs do, but I can understand them, since I'm connected to IT myself in work and I know how it looks like from different side as well
I really share this point because like I have said, I have experience too and my work changed entirely the form of I see the software development. And I am sure then the game development is more complex.

In the last years I have appreciated each more all the work done in PG by their small team after years of no content.
And I Hope they can hire more people to work more faster in the future for both games (like in their 'gold era' when they was around 10-15 people working), it would be fantastic! But also I know it is hard.
For now we have to wait and let they do their work for each update. :)

Sorry again for be out of the main topic... :geek:
Greetings!
 

NaY

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Good afternoon everyone!

, I have been viewing all message from players and I think every message has worth to read.
I understand what you all are thinking because I am also a player like you
but we have to understand that the developers are giving their maximum efforts to provide us the best game play so that we can enjoy. As they have explained that there are few issues and limitations but that doesn’t mean they forgot about us. They are already shared the information with us which we need to know. We need to have a little patience and let the developers do their best work for all of us

texto en español

Buenas tardes a todos, estaba viendo cada mensaje y creo que cada uno es valido!
entiendo lo que piensan por que soy jugadora tambien como ustedes.
Lo que si tenemos que entender que los desarrolladores estan dando el maximo por brindarnos lo mejor para que podamos disfutarlo,
ahora han surgido problemas como lo han manifestado ,pero no eso no significa que ellos se olvidaron de nosotros...
Ellos ya nos brindaron la informacion que necesitamos ahora necesitamos tener un poco de paciencia y dejar que los desarrolladores hagan su mejor trabajo para todos nosotros
 

Sandysauce

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AI Free for all deathmatch :sweatgrinning:
View attachment 38070
Just for fun? Or is there actually something you're observing about it? I'm highly interested in some of the testing aspects behind the game, and it makes me wish I could actually code more than just websites :v
 

domadino

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Just for fun? Or is there actually something you're observing about it? I'm highly interested in some of the testing aspects behind the game, and it makes me wish I could actually code more than just websites :v
I think It looks like they are testing something in damage :v
 

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Hello Sandysauce,

The image shared by @Highway is not just for fun, its one of screens shared with everyone about the work going behind the scene. Hopefully we will have some positive news in the coming days. Speaking of coding languages, which coding languages you have expertise?

regards,

Orrire.
 

Sandysauce

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Hello Sandysauce,

The image shared by @Highway is not just for fun, its one of screens shared with everyone about the work going behind the scene. Hopefully we will have some positive news in the coming days. Speaking of coding languages, which coding languages you have expertise?

regards,

Orrire.
I figured it had something to do with some kind of work, but still very amusing to watch i'm sure. I have experience in HTML, CSS and i dabbled a little bit in Java but struggled with it. Mostly just front end coding!
 

Highway

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Just for fun? Or is there actually something you're observing about it? I'm highly interested in some of the testing aspects behind the game, and it makes me wish I could actually code more than just websites :v
It was an AI test and the simulation zone to check if the changes we did work out. As we need to prepare a few things in the AI before we they can be fully used to simulate combat with different variables for the balancing.
 
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