The One-Hit Prevention (Poll)

[Thround]

Hello everyone,

The following is a poll about a very controversial matter, which aims to help us understand more about the matter, and what we as a community want.

The One-Hit Prevention.
​

The One-Hit Prevention is an addition since 2016. Its main focus was to protect low level players & Mobs from being defeated by one hit. It basically creates a limit for damage that one player or mob can receive based on both level & heal points. The lower level & heal points are, the lower damage is received by a single shot.

Side affects that followed this system are summed in the following:

• Weapon Shots doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Skills doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Battle cry effect doesn't reach full potential.
• Critical hits doesn't reach full potential.
• The limit is so close that it allows players to do more damage by shots & skills than players stronger than them by 5 levels because of the vitality & level difference.
• Allows couple of low level players to overwhelm one high level player with special effects, and allow each to play a key role in combat support.

- Poll options contains several methods to handle this issue, and these methods I do not necessarily agree on them all, but hopefully it will match all what players might suggest.

Note: This is only a Feedback, and once again, I do not decide about updates.

Please feel free to send your personal ideas about how to handle this issue.

Thround

 

[istencsaszar]

Is this applied to dino damage as well, or just guns?

 

[WindofChange]

Is this applied to dino damage as well, or just guns?

All sources of damage.

 

[Thround]

Is this applied to dino damage as well, or just guns?

Normally no, because Dino damage is not high enough, but yes when it comes to Battle cry effect, or other Skills such as 500% damage 'Tail smash attack' by Ankylosaurus or 300% damage 'Carnage attack' by Carnotaurus

 

[Shuriken]

Hello everyone,

The following is a poll about a very controversial matter, which aims to help us understand more about the matter, and what we as a community want.

The One-Hit Prevention.
​

The One-Hit Prevention is an addition since 2016. Its main focus was to protect low level players & Mobs from being defeated by one hit. It basically creates a limit for damage that one player or mob can receive based on both level & heal points. The lower level & heal points are, the lower damage is received by a single shot.

Side affects that followed this system are summed in the following:

• Weapon Shots doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Skills doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Battle cry effect doesn't reach full potential.
• Critical hits doesn't reach full potential.
• The limit is so close that it allows players to do more damage by shots & skills than players stronger than them by 5 levels because of the vitality & level difference.
• Allows couple of low level players to overwhelm one high level player with special effects, and allow each to play a key role in combat support.

- Poll options contains several methods to handle this issue, and these methods I do not necessarily agree on them all, but hopefully it will match all what players might suggest.

Note: This is only a Feedback, and once again, I do not decide about updates.

Please feel free to send your personal ideas about how to handle this issue.

Thround

Reply about The One-Hit Prevention by Shuriken
For few years and I have been noticing something between low levels and I, that they were reciving less damage than they should, so I started to investigate. On this reply, I will try to share my experience and thoughts about what you should do about new updates and this problems.

- ''Weapon shots do not reach full potentian against equal level players''. This is true, damage is based on your own damage points overall, and in the health and level of the enemy. Also against a lv55 (if you are lv55 too) you can't deal as much damage you should. Skills use to deal 30k sometimes, but against players this things are reduced cuz of their hitpoints, and this makes us calculate wrongly the damage.

- ''Skills doesnt reach full potential against equal level players''. As I said before, this ''damage reduction'' made out of balancing damage and hitpoints, make us deal less damage than we should, being 20k the maximum damage we can deal against one player (maybe a bit more). I also think the Gatling and long range pvps are so popular because of this, skills doesnt deal many damage, and shots at large range deal few damage, but rapidly, so this will make a long pvp faster than a short distance pvp.

- ''Battle cry doesnt reachs the full potential''. This is true, in 2 ways. Firstly, battlecry is a shor-range skill and can't be used, but also there are many dinos like brachiosaurus, that also can't get next to the enemy and make their abilites useless, and not only brach and rex, para, anky and carno too. ALSO battlecry has a bug, when you use battlecry against pachy or coelo, they can use the stunn (or jump skill) to cancel the battlecry, and get closer.

- ''Critical hits doesnt reach full potential''. Thanks to (I call it, maximum damage per level) the hitpoints problem; that we cant deal more damage than x number having in account hitpoints of the enemy; we cant deal 100% efective critical hits. I think and I have understood, that critical hits deal x2 damage than usual, fine, but in a 20k skill, when you get a critical hit you won't even pass 30k-20k against some criatures or players.

- ''The limit is so close that it allows players to do more damage by shots & skills than players stronger than them by 5 levels because of the vitality & level difference''. Damage is reduced by levels, so you deal less damage against a low level. Also if you are low level, higher levels enemies will get you damage reducted too, but here is a problem. The higher level can deal 17k per hit, and 30k per skill, but they wont deal more than ~12k per hit and 20k per skill. And a 5 levels lower player, would deal 12k per hit and 20k per skill, and must be reducted maybe to 11k per hit and 17k per skill. This will make, taking in account clothes and some things more, a lvl50 win against to a level 55. (I have seen situations like this, damage is reducetd to a point both deal the SAME damage).

- ''Allows couple of low level players to overwhelm one high level player with special effects, and allow each to play a key role in combat support''. As I was explaining before, this will make a high level deal much less damage to a lower level, and a lower level deal almost the same damage it will, and have a higher advantage against it.

Thanks for reading the reply, some things would be wrongly wrotten/incorrect maybe but I wrote it as fast as I could. -Shuriken

 

[Agusdim]

Hello everyone,

The following is a poll about a very controversial matter, which aims to help us understand more about the matter, and what we as a community want.

The One-Hit Prevention.
​

The One-Hit Prevention is an addition since 2016. Its main focus was to protect low level players & Mobs from being defeated by one hit. It basically creates a limit for damage that one player or mob can receive based on both level & heal points. The lower level & heal points are, the lower damage is received by a single shot.

Side affects that followed this system are summed in the following:

• Weapon Shots doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Skills doesn't reach full potential against equal level players.
• Battle cry effect doesn't reach full potential.
• Critical hits doesn't reach full potential.
• The limit is so close that it allows players to do more damage by shots & skills than players stronger than them by 5 levels because of the vitality & level difference.
• Allows couple of low level players to overwhelm one high level player with special effects, and allow each to play a key role in combat support.

- Poll options contains several methods to handle this issue, and these methods I do not necessarily agree on them all, but hopefully it will match all what players might suggest.

Note: This is only a Feedback, and once again, I do not decide about updates.

Please feel free to send your personal ideas about how to handle this issue.

Thround

Thround, I understand that the function of GM accounts is to test future updates, my question is, what do they really test? Do you only do performance tests or also PvP duels?

You perfectly understood the point of giving more "Durability" to low-level players and mobs, but ... isn't it supposed that in these types of games the effort to improve has to be reflected?

In the MMORPG there are levels that make the difference between a new player and someone who has already dedicated time to the game, the One-Hit is perfectly logical and healthy, since the Protection of the Defenders already exists to counter the One-Hit, the new players do not use it or don't understand its functionality? Explain it in a more intuitive way.

Many players invest time and money forging useful "Clothes". That in my opinion clothing is something that should also be analyzed, since it does not work as expected, this is reflected in the fact that for years clothing with the attribute "Damage" has predominated in the profiles of players.

 

[Thround]

Thround, I understand that the function of GM accounts is to test future updates, my question is, what do they really test? Do you only do performance tests or also PvP duels?

All kinds of updates and changes.

You perfectly understood the point of giving more "Durability" to low-level players and mobs, but ... isn't it supposed that in these types of games the effort to improve has to be reflected?

That question should not be meant for me. Like I said, I do not decide about Updates.

Thank you for your Feedback, regardless.

 

[Enix]

In my opinion, to make the game more PvP friendly, as was in 2016, it is better to remove the damage limitations.

 

[DalekRaptor]

I think you only just need delete it, the way for protect low levels is the defenders's protection wich the game already give as free when you start. Protect low levels just make that the players use a level 1 dino and a level 55 weapon for kill easyly with violent booster or low levels hunting on high level zones. If you delete it the game will be more like it was in 2015 when wasn't obligatory to use a booster for pvp, wars etc

 

[Escanor_021]

Delete the damage limitation pls, if the new players are dying by another players they can use protection as well.

 

[-Frigg-]

Delete the damage limitation pls, if the new players are dying by another players they can use protection as well.

or they could bring back outlaw hunters. low levels are SUPPOSED to be demolished by higher levels. that's how you know you actually benefit from upgrading.

 

[Mercurio]

I believe that damage reduction should be removed, because it gets in the way of pvp a lot, especially in wars, that we waste time trying to kill a low level while a high level also attacks us, and the protection is already enough to protect those who don't want to be attacked and if i worked hard to be high lvl why can't i give my total damage at low lvl?

 

[Sandysauce]

I agreed with deleting the function, but I don't agree with finding another way to protect lower levels, we already have protection, which any level players can get, and you start out with protection when you start the game. There is no need to have another way to protect a lower level, if they are not smart enough to go and get protection and use the game's function, then they probably deserve to be killed.

 

[Slaideer..]

''Delete the feature, and find an alternative way to protect low level players & mobs '' is the best option, I agree with what people have already said about low levels they already have the option of using protection.

 

[Agusdim]

You realize that the game will never contemplate all its splendor when the same personnel from the SplitScreen company want to do nothing.

That is very sad man, the game has potential, if you do not want to work it, then close the servers and save yourself the expense

 

[istencsaszar]

Or maybe delete the feature for a test period of like 2 days and see how people like it. I have no idea what effects would it have on the gameplay experience, so I don't have a solid opinion on the topic. Also devs voting on the poll is a joke...

 

[-Frigg-]

View attachment 37169

You realize that the game will never contemplate all its splendor when the same personnel from the SplitScreen company want to do nothing.

That is very sad man, the game has potential, if you do not want to work it, then close the servers and save yourself the expense

ha oh wow, i didn't even notice that. that's terrible. really doesn't bode well for dinostorm, does it?

 

[Thround]

Or maybe delete the feature for a test period of like 2 days and see how people like it. I have no idea what effects would it have on the gameplay experience, so I don't have a solid opinion on the topic.

A total removal of One-Hit prevention will have the following affects:

• All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs.
• Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible.
• Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support.
• Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players.
• It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations.
• Combat duration will be significantly shorter.
• Reverse to all the potential cases that I mentioned.

 

[Highway]

While we are working on the balancing we will also look into in the extra mechanics in the combat logic. We see that the damage limiter (one hit kill protection) is causing issues with when using strong attacks against units with overall low HP.

To clarify what the damage limiter does: it does not allow any attack to get higher that 1/8 of the target overall HP.

There are other mechanics that are only active in PVE, that look into level differences and internal strength values to prevent higher level units kill low level units to fast and destroy the experiece for low level players. So this does not affect PVP battles.

 

[-Frigg-]

A total removal of One-Hit prevention will have the following affects:

• All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs.
• Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible.
• Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support.
• Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players.
• It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations.
• Combat duration will be significantly shorter.
• Reverse to all the potential cases that I mentioned.

none of this is a justification for keeping one hit prevention.

1. low levels SHOULD be beaten with one hit by high levels. that's what makes it worth it to upgrade. i've played a lot of mmos in my time, and guess what? if you try to attack a high level player or mob? you're getting beat, because they are stronger than you, because that gives you incentive to upgrade. plus, as has been mentioned previously, protection exists. and its funny that you try to use this is a justification because there've been many times i've been bullied by high level players and support just says "get protection!" so yeah, no leg to stand on there.
2. again, part of the incentive to actually upgrade. you shouldn't be running around high level maps when you're barely level 10. you should be discovering the area meant for you and focusing on your upgrades and learning the game mechanics and story. that's why in many games, certain areas are locked off before certain levels. if you had full access at a low level, you'd probably get lost and frustrated because you'd keep dying and wouldn't know where to go.
3. low levels shouldn't play a key role in combat support, tbh. most clans don't start giving fame and elections until you reach a certain level anyway. 35-40 is where most players start to move up in elections. low levels should be focusing on learning the game and getting stronger.
4. haha, no offense, but they're already meaningless. all quest givers have a quest queue of like 3 different quests. if a high level player ruins one monstrous quest, there'll be another in 10 minutes.
5. someone pointed out to me that getting extra power from low level mobs is part of what made pvp's duration go down, and they're right. when you get extra power from the low level mobs then you can shred your enemies with bleed or stun them before they have a chance to react. tbh, if mobs were one hit kill that might actually help the issue with combat duration.
6. combat duration is already ridiculously short, and removing one hit prevention isn't going to make it any shorter. in all honesty, it will probably improve it, in addition to implementing ideas other players have put forward.

honestly, it just feels like you're listing non-problems so that there's a justification to leave things the way they are, despite how clearly unhappy the players are.

 

[DalekRaptor]

A total removal of One-Hit prevention will have the following affects:

• All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs.
• Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible.
• Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support.
• Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players.
• It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations.
• Combat duration will be significantly shorter.
• Reverse to all the potential cases that I mentioned.

"It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations" that is a good point, basically the game will be like before, now is boring your oponents just win because they collect extra from mobs.
"Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players. " High levels recieve broken items, so that protection isn't neceseary. And if that is the problem just add limitation to those mobs.
"Combat duration will be significantly shorter" before the one hit protection was created in 2015 for example that wasn't the case, and that can be aumented by the weapon and dinosaur balance. But now even if it is shorter we could kill low levels and player that are using violent boosters.
"Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible. " that thing now is very imposible, in all the maps there are zones in which spawns lot of alphas and veterans, CCV and MM have lot of bottlenecks with 3, 4 or even 5 alphas and bandits.
"All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs." that is the main problem, they can easyly kill players which are 5 or 10 levels highger than them.
"Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support." that isn't a problem because them still can use extra attacks for help. If they die by a hit doesn't change much te situation before the update many of them died easily with gatt bledding effect

 

[DalekRaptor]

While we are working on the balancing we will also look into in the extra mechanics in the combat logic. We see that the damage limiter (one hit kill protection) is causing issues with when using strong attacks against units with overall low HP.

To clarify what the damage limiter does: it does not allow any attack to get higher that 1/8 of the target overall HP.

There are other mechanics that are only active in PVE, that look into level differences and internal strength values to prevent higher level units kill low level units to fast and destroy the experiece for low level players. So this does not affect PVP battles.

But it really affect PVP battles especially in dinos with lot of streght and weapons with lot of damage, i know this because i am a carnotaurus and tyrannosaurus user with peacemaker. And the limit is only 22k with violent booster to another level 55, and that limits high damage dinos and weapons because players that use dinos with more vitality too can reach that limit.

 

[Mercurio]

A total removal of One-Hit prevention will have the following affects:

• All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs.
• Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible.
• Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support.
• Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players.
• It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations.
• Combat duration will be significantly shorter.
• Reverse to all the potential cases that I mentioned.

all this serve as an incentive for the low lvl to be stronger

 

[Agusdim]

A total removal of One-Hit prevention will have the following affects:

• All low level players will be beaten with one hit from both high level players and high level mobs.
• Discovering maps phase for low levels will be hard if not impossible.
• Low levels will no longer play a key role in combat support.
• Boss missions, especially monstrous ones will be meaningless, especially at low levels when a high level player join it, spoiling it for all other players.
• It will be impossible to collect Extra Power from shooting low level mobs across roads to combat locations.
• Combat duration will be significantly shorter.
• Reverse to all the potential cases that I mentioned.

Thround

-That difference of "Power" has to be marked and be noticed, it is not logical that a newly integrated player can face someone who has been playing and upando for months.
-That low lvl players have the ease of walking and already exploring all the maps is something questionable, I do not see it as a bad idea to block a map until your ranger has a certain lvl, in my opinion this would cause intrigue which it would become motivation to discover the next frontier ... You have to be clear, for example, to unlock Mokon Woods you have to be at least level 10-11, not lvl 14 since you are removing the drop x4 ...
-Low levels do not have to generate a "KEY" role ... man, what determines the power of a clan, in addition to team play, are its high levels. You want to give a function to low levels in a clan? Add something new! Missions for the clan and those kinds of things that have already been talked about, and it allows to build Squads to help a low level to rise faster. You will generate a healthier and less toxic environment, less of the lone wolf ...
-For Missions you can add exceptions, that is, you can keep the One-Hit function only for missions.
-The extra power is very questionable, if it is used now it is due to:
1. It is the only way to kill faster and resist a few more seconds, this with the rebalancing of the damage would be solved, in addition it would force you to think more than how to use, and not simply enter with the skill 3 of gatling as a retard ..
-The duration of the combat would be reduced "NOW", but in the future, once the damage rebalancing has been done, or increasing the life, or the solution used, the combats will have a longer duration.

Starting from these points, the game without the One-Hit is viable and will even allow you to explore new alternatives.

 

[Sandysauce]

To put it in a way that Devs would be interested in:

If you cater towards the low level players, which you are doing by providing them a way to survive through killing, you're killing your premium currency market. These lower players are not going to have to buy as much Gold Coins for higher level skins as level 55's do. Skins at level 10 are less than 500 Gold Ccoins, compared to, the sometimes 2k Gold Coins, higher levels have to pay for flash sale skins. The same with weapons, tech, implants and dinos. Higher level dinos cost more, but you see more lower levels purchasing things and doing nothing to upgrade because they don't need to when they can just escape death, or sometimes, kill a higher level player anyway. You want to make more money? Put an incentive on leveling up. Let those high levels be able to one-shot lower level players. Sometimes, that might even make those lower level players purchase Gold Coins to upgrade instead of manually grinding so they don't die while grinding.

If you continue to alienate your players by not listening to what they want (this is just one small example in the big picture) you will no longer make the money you need to sustain your game. Its a shame that I would have to outline it in an economical terms, but you seem convinced that you need to argue with the community over whats killing your game.

 

[-Frigg-]

If you continue to alienate your players by not listening to what they want (this is just one small example in the big picture) you will no longer make the money you need to sustain your game. Its a shame that I would have to outline it in an economical terms, but you seem convinced that you need to argue with the community over whats killing your game.

i'd actually also like to put emphasis on this.

the community is saying in no uncertain terms what they want to see. i've seen that the vast majority of people are in agreement. these are things we've wanted for years. things that should've been taken care of a long time ago. do you know how mmos like WoW are still around after 10+ years? they LISTEN to their playerbase. they take what they want into account. they constantly release quality of life updates and do things to fix their game. when they do release expansions, they add features that the players want and enjoy.

my biggest problem with ds is that it's like fighting tooth and nail to get any of the devs to listen to what WE want. even in the poll, one of the devs said "do nothing." i don't think you all quite realize how disheartening that is to people who've been playing ds for years. even trying to tell the GMs, people who apparently play the game, what's wrong and what we want is like talking to a brick wall.